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This is simular to the question that started this whopper.
" Where did the wings of the 767 go that crashed into the Pentagon?? Are we supposed to believe that for the first time in aviation history, a plane collided with a building and left no trace of itself? Ridiculous! "
Do a little research and you will see how comical this statement is. This is where it all started. A Frenchman picked up on the shape of the hole in the front of the Pentagon and wrote a book about it. It became a bestseller worldwide. All because we have watched too many Bugs Bunny cartoons people really expected to see the perfect profile cut out of the plane. From here it took off and gained a life of it's own. Doctored photos online, lies and other manufactured evidence all jumbled in with minor true life inconsistancies. Fiction writers whipping up a story to discredit their own government. More and more websites using evidence from the same sources to perpetuate the stupidity. I have spent a lot of time debunking this nonsense. You of course can continue on the path of believing this, that is your choice. I would recommend a different choice.
In my Blog WALKING DOWN THE PSHYCO PATH there are many postings on the subject with many links. Check it out.
posted by
gomedome
on July 6, 2004 at 10:05 PM
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paul475 --- Now we have gone from cell phones being impossible to use to
cell phones probably making some of the calls. And I agree. It is possible but it has been my experience that beyond 10,000 feet they are next to useless. But none of this really matters. I have followed a dozen or so of these conspiracy theories for the last several months. Every last one of them so far follows the same pattern. Someone picks up on what to them is an inconsistancy and builds a house of cards around a story. Conjecture and assumption become fact to some as the stories evolve. Layers of bullshit are added, others post websites using much of the conjecture as grounds for contention and a whole lot of people run around saying things like " he stole the election why do you think it impossible for him to conspire against his own people ? " or " follow the money " or " this is all about oil ". In it all common sense has taken flight and dissapeared. Human nature is an inescapable constant that would not allow such a grand conspiracy to take place.
People died. Yes they are really dead, not in hiding. Not murdered by the government but by terrorsists. The heroics of the people struggling with the terrorists on flight 77 may well have been overblown. They did die in a struggle however and their families are trying to pick up the pieces of their lives. Meanwhile amateur wannabe slueths are picking over some of the innocuous and minor inconsistancies within the official versions and making claims of criminal conspiracy on the slimmest of evidence. Quite often from a position of technical and policy ignorance. How un-American.
By the way : the findings of the Warren Commission was most probably a conspiracy. One perpetrated for benevolent reasons. The cold war, post Cuban missile crisis populace of the USA was coming apart at the seams. The Warren Commmission put the Kennedy assassination to bed to calm the masses. Trying to link the two situations is irrelevant however.
posted by
gomedome
on July 6, 2004 at 9:42 PM
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Not All The Calls Placed From the Doomed Planes...
...were from airphones, but from cellphones. It's in the record. There would have been no way, in some of the cases, for anything but a cellphone to be used.
NORADs whole raison d'etre is tracking planes throughout US airspace. How difficult would it have been to track the flight of aircraft which had their transponders turned off? If it only took ten minutes for the military to scramble jets to track Payne Stewart's Lear Jet, how fast do you suppose the military would take to track a commercial airliner that had A)turned off its transponder; B)Refused to communicate with the FAA regarding their flight plan and intentions?
This whole 9/11 atrocity is tragic not only because, like the JFK assassination, a country's dreams for the future were effectively squelched by a cabal of elites who believe they know what is best for the human race, but also because a massive number of people were traumatized into believing fraudulent information that, on reflection, makes absolutely no friggin' sense.
Where did the wings of the 767 go that crashed into the Pentagon?? Are we supposed to believe that for the first time in aviation history, a plane collided with a building and left no trace of itself? Ridiculous!
I spoke only to the cellphone usage issue. I know there were airphones that were used in some cases, but there were distinctions in the literature surrounding the events that clearly distinguished between cellphone and airphone usage.
Follow the money.
posted by
Volaar
on July 6, 2004 at 3:58 PM
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paul475 --- this is really sad
You are absolutely correct in saying that cell phones are not designed to transmit and receive from the air. Many technical problems present themselves and you are also correct in saying that cell phones are rendered useless at altitude. Connectivity diminishes rapidly with altitudes of 10,000 feet or greater allowing connectivity at a dismal fraction of a percentage point. For the most part traditional cell phones are useless in terms of reliability in air transit anywhere except runway to gate and vice versa. I have travelled a lot, I know this to be true.
The sad part comes in the fabrication of this lie built on English language nuances and a bit of misinformation. Airphones which do work in transit and quite well at lower altitudes were actually used to place the calls from flight 77. Their simularity in concept to the layman is where the word airphone has been replaced with cell phone in describing these tragic events. It is a generic and unintentional, albeit an innacurrate discription of the phones used. This is it. The entire premise this lie is based on. Considering the flight itself was not at 35,000 feet but estimated to be much lower as it sped it's way to Washington even that part of the fabrication may have no bearing.
Do you really put this much credence into a story that is concocted because of an innocent misuse of words ?
posted by
gomedome
on July 5, 2004 at 12:23 PM
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Cellphones Aren't Designed to Transmit From the Air....
...it's not about MY expertise, it is about RF physics. Do you know what GAIN is? Do you anything about WAVE propagation? Probably not.
Under the stress of traumatic shock, humans will believe alot of crazy stuff, not unlike the German people believed after Hitler staged the Reichstag fire and took over the German government for the Nazi Party. Different time, same psychological principle.
Calls made on the aircraft telephones could still be made, certainly, but the use of cellphones on aircraft flying through continguous "cells" in a commercial airliner cruising at speed are, for all practical purposes, impossible. A series of studies were done using standard private aircraft and those calls were next to impossible to initiate, and then harder to sustain. A commercial aircraft's skin is like a giant RF shield that would attenuate, if not eliminate, the signals coming from a cellphone antenna.
In short, this is cellphone nonsense is the equivalent of the single bullet theory of the JFK assassination.
I am not saying ANYONE in the families of the 9/11 victims lied. But I do think they were fooled. I do think their emotions were cruelly manipulated.
posted by
Volaar
on July 5, 2004 at 10:00 AM
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You know absolutely nothing about cell phones or aircraft! Your not only
wrong, your just plain dumb! First of all, a cell phone is nothing more
than an advanced super two-way radio! Whether Analog or Digital it will
still transmit a signal to a nearby tower. At 35,000 feet above the earth
a cell phone can transmit its signal to a nearby tower. Are you saying
that pilots dont have the capacity to talk to control towers? They too
are transmitting by two way radio, a different frequency, but still a
two-way radio. And the reason airlines dont want you to use your cell
phone in the air is based on the theory that a cell phone could interfer
with the planes avionics. This theory however has never been proven!
And why would the loved ones of those Heroic Americans make this up?
They succeeded in downing the plane before it hit the White House!
But all this was made up? By who? So your calling their family liars?
I have a degree in Broadcasting and Radio, my Husband has been in Aviation
for over 25 years. My Father worked for Motorola for 20 years. You are
posting ridiculous propaganda!
posted by
anaerie
on July 4, 2004 at 5:48 PM
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