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hannah-b, I have to agree with you on that, it's often just as hard
or harder to forgive ourselves.
posted by
Julia.
on June 28, 2004 at 10:16 AM
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Forgiveness issues
Forgiveness...ahhhh. One of the many "issues" I am working through during a very turbulent but exciting time of personal growth. But you know what's hardest for me? Self-forgiveness.
posted by
Hannah_B
on June 28, 2004 at 7:50 AM
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wilds, it certainly isn't easy, but the rewards are well worth it!
posted by
Julia.
on June 24, 2004 at 2:26 PM
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Quirks
I'm having forgiveness issues too. I want to be a bigger person, but I'm finding it way difficult. In a moment of thinking here, I'm thinking that I should forgive and learn. I don't have to be a doormat, but I can forgive and move on.....going to take some practice!
posted by
Wildwoman_Laloba
on June 24, 2004 at 11:23 AM
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decshak, thanks for your insightful comment.
posted by
Julia.
on June 24, 2004 at 10:13 AM
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harveyg, I understand your viewpoint but still think there
are always actions that merit forgiveness. If for no other reason than to get that feeling of anger out of yourself before it causes harm to the body.
posted by
Julia.
on June 24, 2004 at 10:12 AM
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Some people seem so unreasonable that they touch off the same in me.
But others who are so unreasonable don't -- I can get philosophical about them. I think maybe our desire to be fair is what saves us in the end, whether or not we can achieve fairness, and that is what sets you, Quirkyalone, and me above the completely thoughtless, maddening people, who'll stab you in the back on purpose, I hope.
posted by
WindTapper
on June 23, 2004 at 9:42 PM
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Quirkyalone,
Let me add my two-cents: The concept of forgiveness bothers me. In my life, forgiveness is never an option because of the way I understand acceptance.
I must ('must' if I am to be true to my personal phlosophy) accept the fact that everyone has an opinion and that they are entitled to it. I must accept the fact that we are all different, we are all individuals and each of us will have different mannerisms, different perspectives and diferent ways of expressing ourselves. Forgiveness is never an option because to consider that would be to place myself above the person I am forgiving.
Now don't take this as a pompous attitude, you'll see me (here at blogit) arguing with people, debating facts, even trying to impose my opinion on others but regardless of the outcome of these debates (I change my opinion, the other party changes theirs or its a deadlock), regardless of any insults that fly back and forth I'll continue to accept our differences. There is nothing to forgive if you accept the differences.
Well that's all you get for two-cents. I always love your writings and hope you get over your anger.
posted by
HarveyG
on June 22, 2004 at 8:57 PM
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scriber, well...sometimes. But I appreciate that you think so.
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 8:17 PM
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Sue, thank you very much!
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 8:16 PM
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quirky j, you are very kind and forgiving. love Scriber
posted by
scriber
on June 22, 2004 at 8:06 PM
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NICE POST
posted by
Star5_
on June 22, 2004 at 7:35 PM
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anaerie, those who don't mistakes are probably...dead.
Did someone else say that before me or did I just make that up? Anyway, you're right that learning from them is a good thing.
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 7:03 PM
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We have all been guilty of making misstakes. However not taking responsibility for them is different. Those of us who have made alot of them, like me are probably qwicker to forgive than most. We also know that sometimes its easier to beg for forgiveness than ask permission. The lesson here is to learn from our misstakes, that usually call's for humility, not ego and defiance.
posted by
anaerie
on June 22, 2004 at 6:56 PM
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shadow, yeah, got to watch out for the midnight mind-stealers, hehe
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 6:48 PM
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Quirky,
Unless mental gets me in the end I'll always remember Grandfather's lessons. LOL Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on June 22, 2004 at 6:43 PM
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E-shock, only my own (kidding!)
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 6:40 PM
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Quirkster
xoxoxo.. l-o-v-e ya
Glad you promote free speech
posted by
EccentricShock
on June 22, 2004 at 6:31 PM
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E-Shock, that's okay, you don't have to agree. I still love you.
And it's posted in Opinion so that is just mine after all.
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 6:27 PM
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Shadow, no it wouldn't hurt at all, it would probably
be very beneficial for the world. And yes, never forget what he taught you as I am sure it was all worthwhile.
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 6:24 PM
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Quirky,
Nice! I don't agree with the first paragraph though. I
will keep time for blogging!!
posted by
EccentricShock
on June 22, 2004 at 6:23 PM
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Quirky,
What can I say but thanks a bunch. Wouldn't hurt if there were more folks who would try and follow the teachings of a Native American shaman either. I learned a lot from my Native American grandfather who has passed on now, but as long as I remember his words, follow his teachings he will always be there to guide me.
posted by
Keshet
on June 22, 2004 at 6:17 PM
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Shadow, thanks for the wonderful comments. Who knew there
was such introspection lurking within you...well now I do! ;-)
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 6:12 PM
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Quirky,
Great post. I've found that life is too short and precious to keep anger inside yourself (I of course still do), but I meditate about the anger, usually sitting under a tree in the woods is best for me. What's the quote in the Bible about "turning the other cheek"? Well, that's a good statement. People come and go throughout your life and each one you encounter always gives you more knowledge of your "inner self". Some people give us the negative aspects and this is when we show others what and who we are by the actions we display. Kinda look at it also, that those around us also learn who we are in challenges and some may think "now I'll know how to act next time, when I'm in a similar situation". So, in essence when you give positve to a negative reaction you are teaching others lessons as well. This post tells me that you are searching for that positive. Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on June 22, 2004 at 6:04 PM
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Thank you Kay-Ren...I think?? Don't mull it over so hard
that your brain gets cracked, though...
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 5:48 PM
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Boy, that's a hell of a post and I mean hell. You've given me a lot to think about. Great post.
posted by
Kay-Ren
on June 22, 2004 at 3:38 PM
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faranya, thank you for your nice compliment, I feel the same way about
your comments. They always have substance. I do disagree about the forgiveness issue, however. I think that if I am holding on to anger or hurt feelings at those who I believe acted less than honorably, then I have to forgive them for that. Even if I were the only one to feel that way (which I know I am not) I still have the emotions and so they need to be reconciled within myself...not for them, but for me. I'm sorry to see you go, and will miss your presence and comments.
posted by
Julia.
on June 22, 2004 at 9:58 AM
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Only the injured party can really offer forgiveness, I think. It is not up to those who are onlookers and/or supporters even though it may make us feel generous. In this case, it would appear that the two people involved in the poem's creation and misuse are the sole individuals who can truly claim a need to forgive and forget. Everyone else is a witness to events but not really a participant in them, except indirectly. They committed no injustice, suffered no wrong.
Just my opinion, of course. Your posts are always so cogently-written and well worth the read.
posted by
faranya
on June 22, 2004 at 6:46 AM
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angie, thank you. I try to make good decisions but you know,
it's not always so easy. Like life I guess. And thanks again for the reading!
posted by
Julia.
on June 21, 2004 at 8:50 PM
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Ariala, thank you so much for that comment. I could not agree more.
Those philosophies have greatly helped me with my own issues, and not just forgiveness but others.
posted by
Julia.
on June 21, 2004 at 8:39 PM
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Passionflower, I've been told that "forgiveness is not about
the other person, it's about yourself." That is how I am finally learning to let go of things. One technique I have used with some success is to mentally say, a thousand times a day if need be, that "I forgive so and so," and focus on sending them love. You don't feel love, but eventually you find that you start to. And little by little they feel that love, too. Sounds corny I suppose but it has worked for me. It's win-win in the end.
posted by
Julia.
on June 21, 2004 at 8:36 PM
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According to your tarot cards
you are a fair person, with a good heart, who will ultimately make the right decision. Now take that breather your supposed to take and don't worry about it. These are really minor issues, no offense. You know, my dad has been mad at me for two years- he thinks I stole his business. He flip flops back and forth between anger and understanding, but he will not come to terms with the fact that I was left with few options while he was sitting in jail with a murder charge against him. Take care:)
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on June 21, 2004 at 8:35 PM
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Quirky, great and honest post. I think all of us struggle at one time or
another with forgiveness. We all have different issues that plague us more than others. I don't have a problem with forgiveness, but I have a problem with trust. When it comes to forgiveness, if a person sees humanity as being interconnected and seeing all of us as ONE, we begin to want to heal the gulf between all of us. We begin to see how a ripple effect is perpetuated with our attitudes towards one another. Once we understand that, we'll want to seek to send out positive, compassionate and forgiving waves. In so doing, we generate our own well-being.
There's a quote I really like and I think it's fitting here. "You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late." Emerson Forgiving is a kindness that brings healing to those who have wronged you.
I always enjoy your work.
posted by
Ariala
on June 21, 2004 at 8:30 PM
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My, but we're being awfully mature today. I suppose I've said out loud that I forgive those people, I loose them--I'm doing it for me, not for them--but then I turn around and find myself saying things that tell me that I'm still angry.
I'm mad as hell! Nobody gives a shit! How do you get past this type of anger? Sure it's better for me if I get over it, but what's going to remove all the strong emotions I feel?
posted by
Passionflower
on June 21, 2004 at 8:24 PM
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