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Quirky
Unfortunately, the circumstances that justify the killing of another living thing, I think are only justified by the person doing the killing, and once the killing is over, they will have to justify to themselves why they took a life, and forever hold it (like your imprint), and wait to see exactly how that imprint manifests, and have it in them for the rest of their life. Some may be able to carry this burden, but I bet many don't look before they leap, and don't realize the weight that slowly, day by day, make you fall.
posted by
Kelli
on July 27, 2004 at 8:18 PM
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wylie1, thank you for your comment, or should I say commentary, lol.
(and no, it wasn't too long. There is no such animal here).
posted by
Julia.
on July 27, 2004 at 7:56 PM
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Brand spankin' new! Hope it's not too long!
I'm brand new to this, and just happen to stumble on one of my favorite/least favorite subject. Humans erragance that leads them to believe that the other creatures of this earth don't deserve to be treated with respect or humanity. Whether that refers to their treatment while alive and/or being raised, or during the slaughter process.
I am not a PETA member nor a crazed animal rights activist, but I do believe that as humans...the most rational/intelligent?...citizens of the earth, we have a kind of stewardship over the other creatures. They're here for us to use, but we should afford them all the kindness and humane treatment we would want for ourselves or our children. We also need to be aware of their needs as to their living environments, their emotional (YES, I said emotional) needs, and general health and well being.
The baby seal slaughters are only one of the many, inhumanities humans inflict upon the animal kingdom. From baby seals, to beef cattle to swine, and from milk cows, to laying hens, the list goes on and on! Hell, look what we do to eachother!
As for justified killings, of an animal, only for self protection or to protect another. Even I don't include the bugs in my garden, I'm an organtic gardener but there's still some casualties. Flies are one of my nemisis as well as ticks and fleas, and I sure don't feel bad about getting them off my critters. As for humans...well....lets just say there would be a lot less folks on death row if I were in charge and flippin' the switch.
posted by
wylie1
on July 27, 2004 at 4:39 PM
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Gome, How would I know whether the author of that article
heard anyone say that, obviously I have not been there. Can you prove that they didn't say it?? Can I? No. So I presented my opinion, in my opinion blog, based on an article that I read in the New York times. I have considered your facts and agree that you are more informed about this issue than either I or that writer is. But i still stand by my assertion that--economic neccessity or otherwise, having their brains bashed in is a horrific way for the seals to die. A rifle shot to the head is better, I suppose. At any rate, all of that wasn't even really the point I was trying to make with my post, so I guess I really fucked it up then. I will try to do better. Thank you.
posted by
Julia.
on July 25, 2004 at 11:09 AM
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C'mon Quirkyalone --- you can do better than that.
" The article also said some of the men utter a sarcastic 'Welcome Aboard' as they toss the seals onto their boat." This demonstrates that the author of the article was more than biased. This is manufactured heresay, impossible to substantiate. I can guarantee that they have never come within a 1000 miles of the ice flows. And there is a lot of information supporting what I am saying though I will conceed that the 90% figure is an official estimate that may be wishful thinking. But here's the point. The reaction to the baby seal hunt is pure gut wrenching emotion not taking into consideration any of the real life circumstances. It is being revived for the 2 reasons I have outlined, not for any of the mythical reasons those who are opposed to it would like to suggest.
If you ever have the opportunity to travel through Nefoundland and Labrador ( I know from your position you have never been near the place ) you will find an unussualy caring and friendly people with a large Native American populace. Hardly the backdrop for a society of crazed baby animal killers as some have suggested. You would also find a harsh environment with few economic opportunities.
The people involved in the practice simply need the money.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2004 at 10:53 AM
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qwerty, thanks for sharing your views.
posted by
Julia.
on July 25, 2004 at 10:06 AM
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gomedome, i appreciate your position, but if I have presented any
inaccuracies they came from the article itself, and so then that writer was either misinformed or biased...or both. I presented my opinion based upon the facts from that article, and those facts did not support much of what you are saying. But like I said, thank for for presenting another viewpoint.
posted by
Julia.
on July 25, 2004 at 10:05 AM
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T99, thanks for the interesting fact about water buffalo...but how do you
know that??? And thanks for the link, I've read and commented there.
posted by
Julia.
on July 25, 2004 at 9:56 AM
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A time and a place
for just about every act imaginable. The justifiable way of killing something else (in my opinion) is to prevent its doing harm to us in some way. Nature is brutal, and has little interest in being reasoned with about how killing is morally wrong. Everything is relegated to survival, and we have to do what it takes to survive, and that is all inclusive; be it spraying for pests so that you have good food to eat, or stabbing another person who is threatening you in some way.
posted by
qwertyui
on July 25, 2004 at 8:23 AM
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Quirkyalone --- the way you have presented the seal hunt in this posting
is more than a little unfair. Not only have you presented a few inaccuracies you have also given the impression that the people engaged in it have other choices for economic survival. The clubbing of baby seals is an ancient tradition, admittedly outmoded and used as a cull method increasingly less. It will eventually dissapear as it is no longer sanctioned by the Canadian government. Up to 90% of the seals this year were shot with rifles. And seal meat is eaten ( I have eaten it myself ) but correcting these innacuracies only scrapes the surface.
This is a cull you are speaking about, not wanton slaughter as you have described it. A cull set up to right an imbalance. It is also important to consider the economic realities of the area. Newfoundland and Labrador are the poorest parts of North America. A death blow to their economy was dealt several years ago with the closing of the cod fisheries, resulting in up to 70% unemployment in some regions. This closing destroyed the main portion of their economy. There are a number of reasons the cod fishery had to be closed. Overfishing with modern equipment is a big reason but an imbalance in nature is another near as important reason.
Do you know how the imbalance came about ? The world's revulsion with the seal hunt has closed the majority of sealskin markets and has caused as few as 15,000 seals to be harvested in recent years. Now there are millions upon millions of them as they have reproduced unabated. And do you know what they eat ?.......cod yearlings mostly. The over population of seals has caused two enormous problems. The cod fishery will never come back if they remain at current population levels and now the animals are starving to death.
The people of Newfoundland and Labrador are not doing this motivated by some insane zeal to kill animals or greed. All of them, every last one of them is doing it as a means of putting a few more groceries on the table in extremely tough times for them. With the hope that controlling the seal population will give the cod fisheries a chance to recover. Shooting them and as repulsive as clubbing is it is better than letting the animals starve to death. If you are going to tell the story ...tell the whole story.
posted by
gomedome
on July 24, 2004 at 8:57 PM
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Wods - actualy man is NOT alone in that endeavor. Water Buffalo will kill for pleasure, too.
Quirky - I'm not opposed to killing people given the right circumstances.
posted by
Tamara99
on July 24, 2004 at 7:49 PM
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spitfire, so eloquently and passionately stated.
I really love you, and if people get the wrong idea by that, oh well, I know that you know what I mean by it.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:55 PM
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wilds, either that, or they all use the same damn photo :-(
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:52 PM
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Killing slugs, insects, and other pests to protect your food source
is the circle of life. Snakes eat mice, rats, rabbits, etc, and those mice, rats, and rabbits eat what they eat and so on and so on. I am not certain if bugs have souls or if families mourn their deaths. Thinking of ants, bees, wasps, flies, etc. I say, no, they probably don't because they are only motivated to work as an army to feed a queen by instinct. Just look at the loyalty and the kamikaze lifestyle to protect her.
The fact that seal bashers do what they do is the same as how a hit men (most) do what they do. They have no conscience and do it for the money only. Sad, but true. I don't know if we're justified to kill anything, but if it is to protect our food source or health, then I say yes, we are. If it is to clothe someone, use as a "trophy" on a wall in one's home, or just to make into a warm, cute hat, then, hell no. ESPECIALLY when it's a cruel, inhumane, painful death. That's when I believe and eye for an eye would do justice in my mind.
posted by
SpitFire70
on July 24, 2004 at 5:45 PM
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Quirks
Yes, we must have read the same article. 
posted by
Wildwoman_Laloba
on July 24, 2004 at 5:35 PM
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Quirk,
Damn right we agree. shadow
posted by
Keshet
on July 24, 2004 at 5:33 PM
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Wilds, I cried when I read this article, too. It had a picture of a
man with a club in the air about to hit the baby seal, and it was just too much for me to handle.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:28 PM
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S, yeah, I would say "tendencies" is an okay way to describe it.
I don't know, there are so many interpretations to the word "cult." Anyway, we both agree that clubbing baby seals is barbaric, so that's what matters, right?
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:27 PM
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Quirks
I recall reading an article in a New Woman magazine when I was still a teen about the bashing of the baby seals. I cried and cried about it. I don't and won't own any furs. It's a ridiculous "luxury".
posted by
Wildwoman_Laloba
on July 24, 2004 at 5:21 PM
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Quirk,
O.K. I agree. I was just playing around here. But, I have had a run in with Peta over killing wild dogs and I say they have cult tendencies. And no, don't get crazy. The wild dogs killed a four year old child and half ate him before they could be driven off. shadow
posted by
Keshet
on July 24, 2004 at 5:19 PM
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S...Peta is not a cult, just some people who are overzealous
in their protection of a species who cannot protect themselves. Yes, they go too far, but what do you think would happen to animals if they didn't "go" at all?
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:14 PM
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Quirk,
Yeah probably so, not much gets past those loonies. But in this case, hey they would be the best shot, or best to get shot at. Stop the baby seal killing and kill Peta cult members. Can't beat that now can you. shadow
posted by
Keshet
on July 24, 2004 at 5:06 PM
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Shadow, I'm sure that they are probably already on it.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 5:00 PM
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Quirk,
Somebody call Peta and quick! There has got to be a stopping point to senseless killing such as this. I can understand killing for food or to obtain clothes you need, but not this, surely. Unfortunately, this happens too much throughout the world. Its amazing that only tribes or bands of hunter/gatherers who still roam open spaces can take only what they need to survive and they usually call upon their makers in thanks. This destroying life just to make a hat for someone who will probably chuck it next year, no, sorry, like I say someone call Peta. shadow
posted by
Keshet
on July 24, 2004 at 2:29 PM
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jimmy68, thanks for commenting. You are 100% right about the seals,
and probably right about the deer, as well; but I personally could never kill one. I killed a gopher once and bawled my eyes out afterwards, so I vowed never to do that again. Some of us just don't have it in us.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 2:25 PM
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sky, yeah, I saw that yesterday. Can't put one over on Quirky.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 2:21 PM
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What makes the seal killing wrong is that it is simply for profit...
They are not food and no one needs their skins as protection from the cold any longer as there are better synthetic materials available. Deer hunting is necessary to control populations in much of the world as we have killed off most of the large predators. Insects are the enemies of gardens and must be killed. Don't let yourself get caught up in the ridiculousness of the vegans, if we wern't the best killers the world has ever seen we would have become extinct long ago...
posted by
jimmy68
on July 24, 2004 at 2:07 PM
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HAHAHA, YOU KNEW IT RIGHT.....
posted by
Star5_
on July 24, 2004 at 2:02 PM
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hello sky, so you decided a name change was in order, did you?
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 2:00 PM
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wodsmith, I have felt like you, but lately have been trying to see
it from the insects point of view, that they are only trying to survive, and my plants are what they need to eat to do that. So it doesn't really seem the mark of a compassionate woman to kill them for that. As for the seals, there is no reason they die, other than humans wanting a cool fashion accessory.
posted by
Julia.
on July 24, 2004 at 2:00 PM
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hey quirky ALONE.....
posted by
Star5_
on July 24, 2004 at 1:48 PM
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It is said that humans are the only animals
that kill for anything other than the need to eat. We also justify killing bugs and such, by saying that we are controlling that population. Truthfully, if it crawls, it dies. I hate bugs, roaches and such and would rather kill them than have them move in and form a colony in my home. Killing seals for their fur is nasty stuff and if it absolutely has to be done (I can't figure out why), I'm sure that a more humane way can be found to end their life.
posted by
word.smith
on July 24, 2004 at 1:37 PM
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