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Asking the wrong Question--
is what brings on this useless debate. It doesn't matter at all if there is or isn't a God. What KIND of being is it that you give your mind and body to by submission of your will, would be a question that has answers, many of them, in the Bible and other texts. As you know, Painter, I've posted some of these answers in my blog, Christian Morality, (follow the page links through Unstable Character) and many Christians scoff at what is written there--they refuse to see the immoral nature of their Perfect Being, one they hopelessly, yet unknowingly, emulate.
There is something beyond this physical realm, I believe, and it is my faith that if I live this life fully embracing my human nature in its uncorrupted form, being what I was born as and not as others have said it is, then I have honored that which is unseen and unknown--which I hope to discover beyond the doors of death.
Kooka is on this same track and is truely a real human being, who can fault him for that? You're a great father to show your love for your son by validating his decision to live as his conscience commends him to and not threaten him with suffering eternal torment because he didn't believe in what you say is true.
Peace,
FR
posted by
freerain
on March 17, 2005 at 11:47 AM
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The Christian God...
The Christian God is the only one I have learned about in detail, so I can only offer thoughts on this God.
The Christian God is personal and transcendental. He is not just a life-giving force; he is purported to be a personal God, in man's image.
He is also supposed to be above and beyond the natural -- supernatural, transcendental, controlling the Earth and the heavens.
We can only prove things scientifically in the natural realm -- the supernatural is beyond the limits of science.
Proof would have to come some other way than a lab experiment or reasoning process. It would have to come from a personal experience of God.
For me the Christian God is the best explanation -- but I will not try to prove him scientifically or rationally.
I definitely don't hold it against those who reject faith for this reason. I think being good and being religious are not the same thing.
posted by
Dyl_Pickle
on March 11, 2005 at 4:30 PM
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From my own experience...
If you earnestly ask God to show you His cards, He'll show you, but you may not like what you get to see. I posted something here on BN a long while back questioning whether we shouldn't start teaching religion by first asking if there is in fact God (or, why should we believe that there is God?). Shortly thereafter, I started getting answers. I posted a lengthy story of just some of what went down (and is still going down) to restart my BN life. Check it out if you have a few minutes, its the first post on my only blog.
After that brief commercial, let me reiterate: God Is, and He cares that you acknowledge Him. And His qualities aren't all sugar and spice like many Christians like to believe. However, His primary quality (after simply Being) is Mercy, I humbly believe. Therefore, earnest questions, meaning those not intended to vex the faithful, but instead fill the gap in one's life, tend to be answered. But it is His choice and, unlike the unreality of this world that tells us we are everything, He doesn't have to respond to our inquiries if He chooses not to do so. That's the Qur'anic Truth, which gives the most fulsome view of God--a God who Loves us, Forgives us, but who also lays down discipline when needed. And we spoiled inhabitants of planet West are owed a huge paddling.
posted by
Elmubarak
on March 8, 2005 at 10:08 PM
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First of all, no one can prove a negative.
Second, I think it's the wrong question. Who should bear the burden of someone's belief, or lack of it? Whose job is it to prove God? I think it's everyone's own responsibility to seek such answers for themselves. It is not my job to prove to anyone that what I believe is true. My task, because I take it on voluntarily, is to share what I perceive to be true, and if what I've picked up along the way makes some sense for where you are headed, too, or in any way helps you in finding your own path, then my job is done!
posted by
Ciel
on March 8, 2005 at 8:13 PM
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God is love. When I see people hating one another, I find it hard to believe. But when I see them kind and helping then I do believe. I can see that kooka has those traits from some of his posts. He acts more like a believer than some people that talk about their faith all the time!
I think that we have God pushed on us from people who don't really know God, and that leads to confusion. If you can let go of those ideas, and just look around and accept what you see and feel, you can find God. (But be prepared, he/she may not be what you were expecting.)
posted by
DarrkeThoughts
on March 8, 2005 at 8:03 PM
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existence of God
God is not marketable, but a process of inner awakening. i grew up with God shoved down my throat, which I reacted to by denying Him for over a decade. When my impediments were removed, I found, a part of me remained that was not something I had created by my mind. Can this be proven? It merely is.
posted by
avant-garde
on March 8, 2005 at 3:34 AM
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Good Point Painter…
If God is more than a feeling, it must be expressible. I don’t know if it can be done…but I will keep looking.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on March 7, 2005 at 7:56 PM
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If all men have been given a measure of faith, then I can only assume
those who no longer have faith have convinced themselves, through personal experience, education and logic that there is no God. I will leave it up to God to manifest Himself to them. He can use me but I already know from experience that I can't convince anyone of nuttin.
posted by
Ariala
on March 7, 2005 at 7:49 PM
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Painter -
I'm kind of with Pappy. I don't try to convice anyone there is a God. But I will challenge anyone who tries to tell me not to believe in "God". If someone asks for my opinion I will give it and explain what makes me KNOW that "God" exists. Otherwise, I just continue down my journey trying to learn and grow as much as I can.
posted by
sannhet
on March 7, 2005 at 7:41 PM
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Neither! If God didn't exist, then it would be provable in some reductio ad absurdum way. There'd be contradictions in the reality we deal with. If God existed, then there is no way of proving he doesn't exist.
It's Godel's theorem in action: in any complete system, there are ALWAYS statements that can neither be proven nor disproven. Those statements may be true or they may be false.ANd they can contradict each other, but both still be true (or false).
The only fact that can be used is that God's existence (or non-existence) depends on faith. Whichever one prefers to believe (ie have faith in) works!
posted by
L.E.Gant
on March 7, 2005 at 7:13 PM
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My question, empty handed painter
Is why would anyone want to try? Faith is its own reward, but only when it is believed. Sometimes people get help on their road to belief, but I don't think anybody ever got there because somebody talked them into it.
posted by
pappy
on March 7, 2005 at 6:08 PM
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It's like Wayne Dyer said
in the title of his book. "You'll See it When You Believe It" When someone decides to believe in God, the evidence appears.
posted by
jollyjeff
on March 7, 2005 at 3:15 PM
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