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amfish:
I hear you and agree with your argument. However, disarmament is indeed a moot point in the United States. Too many great white hunters, too many John Waynes, too many idiots with insecurity issues, too many assholes with penal identification complex, and too many too scared too often. And you are (and Michael Moore) are probably correct that most people who own guns do not know how to properly use them, therefore being more of a danger to themselves, their immediate family, and the neighborhood than to any potential burglar or thief. But sometimes owning a gun, just its physical presence near the owner, has a placebo effect on Americans. It's ingrained into our culture; it is ubiquitous; it is pervasive.
And we (as a nation) will do next to nothing to change it.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 30, 2005 at 2:30 PM
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Disarmament
As a Brit I find the idea that the Americans cling so tightly to their guns hard to understand. A few years ago, there was a massacre at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. As a result, the government tightened gun laws to make such an occurrence less likely. There was some resistance from "sportsmen" but the law went through and it's been pretty quiet since. True, criminals do still "go equipped", because in a system where guns are illegal only criminals will have guns, but there are plenty of other weapons that are illegal in both the UK and the US and you don't find many cases where houses are burgled by people with rocket launchers, do you? What would you do if there were? Make the ownership of rocket launchers legal to even the scale? That way lies an arms race and the only winners will be the arms companies.
Michael Moore reveals some interesting statistics about the protective nature of guns in his book 'Stupid White Men'. In a disproportionate number of circumstances the homeowner doesn't manage to shoot the intruder but, instead, shoots themselves or a loved one. Despite many homeowners actually having guns, few are skilled in their use. By contrast, criminals use their weapons far more often and are thus more likely to hit the target. You could argue that there should be mandatory training in the use of firearms, but apart from the fact that you are thus training the criminals, you are also sending out a signal that the police cannot cope and causing people to panic - something you're already seeing reflected in the increasing sales of personal weaponry since 9/11.
In the end, if everyone owns a gun then you are no safer than if only the criminals do. The only absolute safety you could have would be to bring back castles, or their modern equivalent, and I think if the US starts going down that road then that is the final admission that you've given up on civilization. Perhaps it's not easy to get the guns out of society, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.
posted by
amfish
on March 30, 2005 at 5:15 AM
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GoldenMean:
Funny you should mention the concealed weapon permit for teachers. I used to teach and when I quit, I made the comment (and still use it as a joke) that I would teach again when they allowed me to go into school armed, just like the damned kids. I also want a bulletproof-shielded desk and a Kevlar vest. Oh, and put a few anti-personnel mines around the desk while you're at it.
Seriously, though, it has come to this. Metal detectors aren't enough. Armed security guards and teachers and administrative staff versed in handling weapons -- and with access to weapons to handle -- are unfortunately going to have to be installed or you are going to see more and more Columbines and Red Lakes.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 27, 2005 at 4:02 PM
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What can be done?
Plenty can be done. Locking the school doors and monitoring entry is an "elementary" step that should be done at every school. However, in this case the little bastard had a police car to ram the door with. He would not have been stopped by anything but a gun. Too bad the security officer was not armed. He should have been.
Saul's point about the inevitability of guns in society should be well-heeded by all liberals. Stop dreaming about purging society of guns. It ain't gonna happen. And it shouldn't happen. There will always be criminals and human monsters, so the rest of us need guns to stop them.
So put some guns in the schools. That is the solution you asked for, Saul. Every school office should have a gun in a locker, loaded and ready to go. Every school security officer should have a gun. Teachers should be allowed to qualify to carry a concealed handgun. Then, the next little monster who tries to murder his/her fellow students will have something to worry about.
posted by
GoldenMean
on March 26, 2005 at 10:51 PM
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Good point, there, amfish.
Lots of people forget that public schooling (hell, private schooling also) is integral in teaching children socialization skills. Hmmm, how to teach socialization skills to children isolated from society, insulated in their individual homes, detached from society by autodidactism and/or home schooling, prisoners within their own and their parents' fears of the rest of society -- there's a study for socio-psychologists that would look for a best-case scenario, the worst is damned near evident.
The gun issue is moot. Hypothetically, a social system devoid of firearms would be far safer (unless we came up with various other ways to kill each other, and we have). But our social system embraces firearms and, I doubt, will not let go until our cold, dead fingers are pried from the stock.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 22, 2005 at 4:05 PM
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Homeschooling is not the answer
The trouble with taking children out of school to educate them is that they lose out on one of the most important lessons - how to interact with other people. I think if more people are educated at home then this will lead to more shootings elsewhere, not less. Take the guns out of society and you might stand a chance.
posted by
amfish
on March 22, 2005 at 3:16 AM
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Let's hope that is not the case here, kingmi.
Indians get enough bad press. Bad enough that their past has been desecrated, then to have their present denied viability and validation.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 21, 2005 at 7:26 PM
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Ariala,
the thought crossed my mind as I wrote the blog. It may come to that in the end -- everyone homeschooling, especially with the ubiquitousness of computers.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 21, 2005 at 7:24 PM
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Make2short:
That system sounds like a pretty good one and cost effective.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 21, 2005 at 7:23 PM
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This sort of thing happened
once in the UK. Afterwards they put in all sorts of security measures all over the country. One of the things I witnessed was having the school locked and visitors having to press a buzzer and tell why they were coming it. Their was a video camera for the office to see who was buzzing. This sort of thing would be simple and protect most children, but I have yet to see this instituted.
posted by
Make2short
on March 21, 2005 at 6:59 PM
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Saul, Spring has written a great book about the way native Americans
were tortured and denied their culture, language and livelihoods. I think this one may have roots in that. What is scary is that we did the same to the Puerto Ricans, the Afro-Americans and now to the Latinos, calling them undocumented immigrants.
posted by
kingmi
on March 21, 2005 at 6:56 PM
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Homeschooling is looking better and better
posted by
Ariala
on March 21, 2005 at 6:12 PM
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