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paul was a product of his times
the society placed women on a par with slaves, etc.
although if you stop to ponder what he said -- if you read between the lines, you might conclude that he was warning the churches to be careful not to go against the norms of society simply as a protective measure (in the context of women keeping silent in the churches) and that women who go around gossiping and that seems to be all they have to do with their time -- visit one house after another spreading gossip (women should be keepers at home) are not a good example.
classical religion and now fundamentalist religion take these passages and use them to "put women in their place". It's like a lot of passages -- religion can use them to further their own agenda.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 7, 2005 at 2:06 PM
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Avant -
Well put. Thanks.
posted by
sannhet
on April 7, 2005 at 12:32 PM
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Metta -
Thanks.
posted by
sannhet
on April 7, 2005 at 12:32 PM
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Cherry -
I understand what you mean about Paul, but even one still attached to this world (as Paul was) can access "God" and speak the Truth. Thanks for stopping by and reading.
posted by
sannhet
on April 7, 2005 at 12:31 PM
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Painter -
I'm with you. And I like how the interpretation of "perfect" should be "mature".
posted by
sannhet
on April 7, 2005 at 12:30 PM
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yes, Sannhet
we don't become one with another individual. we become one when we relinquish being individual with another who is already there.
posted by
avant-garde
on April 7, 2005 at 12:16 PM
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oh yes!
Metta
posted by
Metta
on April 7, 2005 at 10:33 AM
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Hallo Sannhet, nice to read you.
Namaste, Sannhet. Was reading Pappy's Blog and noticed your name. Nice thoughts, but I have issues with Paul. He was disrespectful to women so I tend to turn off when he's mentioned. He also sought to destroy the Gnostic followers of Yeshua, which really wasn't on, since they had the right idea about seeking the Self and connecting with the Divine. I don't see him suggesting that we try that one, just that it's going to happen in some far off heaven when we die. As it's a living process (the spiritual ascent), as with all forms of evolution, I can't see it happening in any realm other than the one we are living in now. May you be blessed. 
C.P.
posted by
Cherry_Pie
on April 7, 2005 at 10:07 AM
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pappy knows
that's what Yeshua was getting at
not some one man with a supposed "direct line" to god.
but all of us -- each of us holds the keys to the kingdom -- and we can let people in by opening wide the gates by expressing what we have discovered -- or we can close it up by saying nothing -- but this is like the man who hoarded his wealth, saying "Eat, drink and be merry."
But also, I said this once -- where Yeshua says, "Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect."
the word KJV renders as "perfect" means more accurately, "mature".
And the active verb is "become"
thus it should read, "Become mature, as your parent of the spiritual realms is mature."
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 7, 2005 at 9:24 AM
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Pappy -
Absolutely right! But we can't enter it until we let go of the worldly things. That comes with a mature spirituality, a high-level of consciousness that allows us to detach from this world so that we can attach to the Truth.
posted by
sannhet
on April 6, 2005 at 8:20 PM
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The kingdom is here, sannhet
Right here, right now. What we bind here gets bound, what we loose here gets loosed.
posted by
pappy
on April 6, 2005 at 7:53 PM
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Painter -
Absolutely. Once one matures enough spiritually, nothing else is needed because one "knows" the truth.
posted by
sannhet
on April 6, 2005 at 4:26 PM
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"The Law"
Paul says, is like a "governess" -- or other such tutor -- one that wealthy folks hire to raise a child until maturity and train that child in all the "graces" etc. -- and "The Law" then leads to the maturity of "Grace".
once one matures, one no longer needs the Law.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 6, 2005 at 3:25 PM
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