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shoot hope you don't mind i linked this from gomedome's blog -- since he's asking about Heaven -- ok?
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 27, 2005 at 3:14 PM
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Metta
many writings were removed from the Bible
what was left was what the Deciders considered agreeable to their position and this centuries after the events described.
the rest was ordered destroyed
so I wonder how much we don't know?
much more than we are left with
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 3, 2005 at 8:42 AM
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yes, reincarnation was removed from the bible...
posted by
Metta
on May 2, 2005 at 8:30 PM
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Which verses in Matthew, Mark and James are you referring to? I see
no evidence, proof, or hint toward reincarnation. As for those other books, not in the Bible, I don't take those as gospel myself, though I do own a copy of
The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eden. Anyway, some things are taken on faith and we have to agree to disagree on matters where absolutely no proof exists.
posted by
Ariala
on May 2, 2005 at 2:03 PM
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judgment in Hebrews 9:27
2920 krisis kree'-sis decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal
related to this is
2922 kriterion kree-tay'-ree-on neuter of a presumed derivative of 2923; a rule of judging ("criterion"), i.e. (by implication) a tribunal:--to judge, judgment (seat).
from which we drive criterion, criteria, etc.
one must meet certain criteria.
the interesting part of this is that a tribunal is involved.
but what, may we ask, is the judgment?
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 2, 2005 at 1:53 PM
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Avant -
It is the judgement thing that gets us, regardless of whether reincarnation is true or not. But I wonder, can we learn and grow without judgement?
posted by
sannhet
on May 2, 2005 at 1:15 PM
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sannhet
the idea of reincarnation fits squarely in the context of the soul honing and sharpening its rough edges on the way to mastery. it takes many tries and many mistakes to master something. imagine the pain of growth if it were to be accomplished in one lifetime! i agree with pappy in that it matters little while we are here now, but i also think that judgment is something we partake in, in order to define who we are. unfortunately, guilt is the effect of judgment and is self-inflicted. if there be a hell, we certainly put ourselves there.
posted by
avant-garde
on May 2, 2005 at 12:54 PM
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Painter -
That is my question. Why did these venerated men of the church believe in it? What brought them to that conclusion? I imagine we will never know, but it's nice to be in such company on this particular topic.
posted by
sannhet
on May 2, 2005 at 9:46 AM
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Pappy -
You're right. We go on regardless. I just happen to believe it to be true, and I do see it in Christian tradition.
posted by
sannhet
on May 2, 2005 at 9:44 AM
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Ariala -
I know we differ on this, but I don't see silence on the subject from Yeshua in the Bible (see Matthew, John, James). Nor in several documents from Nag Hammadi, including the Gospel of Thomas, The Book of Thomas the Contender, and the Secret Book of John to name a few. But of course, this is just my view.
posted by
sannhet
on May 2, 2005 at 9:43 AM
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these early church fathers
read the same scriptures we do
and they have been canonized as saints (I'm not saying that's anything rerat or authoritarian)
so what did they know that we do not?
why didn't the Church consider their ideas?
back to Ariala.
"It is appointed to men once to die."
i read that passage as saying, we have to die once.
it doesn't exclude dying again.
"and then the judgement"
do we look to Da Vinci's painting for what the Last Judgement is?
we haven't much that describes it.
I've logged in on the sheep and goats passage before -- the fire involved there is a fire of testing.
the scripture passages assigned as readings for this past weekend -- where in the gospel the grapevine is pruned and the pruned pieces "cast into the fire" where they are consumed -- burned up -- not left in Hellfire to suffer for all eternity.
this Hellfire is a concoction of those who want to at least imagine their enemies suffering eternally anyway. Such so-called "Christians" will have to return to this life to learn, won't they?
sorry about the mood. maybe I'm tired of keeping the gloves on.
hope and real salvation as described in the New Testament would have to involve reincarnation. otherwise it's hopeless.
"who then can be saved?"
and If Salvation is possible, how can it be enacted without reincarnation?
look at your life and the lives of those around you? Do you want to spend eternity with these people? Would they want to spend eternity with you?
Heck, you can't spend ten minutes with them -- imagine all eternity!
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 2, 2005 at 6:50 AM
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sannhet
Reincarnation seems like the answer to a lot of questions about why people are the way they are, but Ariala is right, there is no Christian tradition about it a so we go on without it. Even if it is true, we go on without it because we can.
posted by
pappy
on May 1, 2005 at 7:15 PM
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...and yet, silence from the Word of God on this subject? Nope, it is
appointed for man to die once and then the judgment.
posted by
Ariala
on May 1, 2005 at 6:36 PM
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