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Pickles--
At the same time that it hurt her because the story kept coming out, yes...she was helped by the attitude of forgiveness.
posted by
Julia.
on July 10, 2005 at 1:21 PM
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Quirky
Everyone has a different way of dealing with and coping with grief - that this woman was able to forgive your brother must have been hard but as you said it helped heal so many others. It must have eased some of the pain your mother felt to have a stranger (also a victim) show some compassion to your brother which extended towards your family.
posted by
littlemspickles
on July 10, 2005 at 1:25 AM
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jackerouac,
you've asked complicated questions--I attempted to answer you but emailed you instead of posting it here...hope you got the email.
posted by
Julia.
on July 9, 2005 at 1:47 PM
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sassy,
for sure that is true--just look at the woman's husband--he ended up dead!
posted by
Julia.
on July 9, 2005 at 1:41 PM
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wordwizard,
Yes, I believe in the mind-body connection, and that holding hatred in your heart is one of the most detrimental things you can do to your body.
posted by
Julia.
on July 9, 2005 at 1:40 PM
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straightforward, I agree...
but somehow I doubt many crimes are committed with the thought of Well, I'll be forgiven so I might as well go ahead and do this.
posted by
Julia.
on July 9, 2005 at 1:38 PM
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intimate
these are very personal, emotional sounding posts and does it help you sharing with people here, well does it heal you? I'm not saying it right, where does it take you? I am honestly fearful of getting emotionally intimate with readers regarding some of my experiences.
posted by
jackkerouac
on July 9, 2005 at 9:59 AM
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Personal growth and a healthy mental attitude
are extremely important, and holding grudges will stop both of these process's. Forgiveness helps all parties involved to move on in a more productive manner. Not forgiving people will make you very ill, both physically and mentally.
posted by
Sherri_G
on July 9, 2005 at 6:51 AM
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There's nothing that kills quite like unforgiveness...
And I don't mean the perpetrator - I mean the person who doesn't forgive.
posted by
Wordwizard
on July 9, 2005 at 5:43 AM
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Forgiveness is fine, but this should not somewhere be construed as a
licence to the perpetrators of violence
posted by
Straightforward
on July 9, 2005 at 1:51 AM
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Justsouno,
Thanks. She is a Christian I believe. I do find that those who don't have faith in some sort of God or higher power, often have a more difficult time with forgiveness.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 11:11 PM
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Quirky this is a great post. As a Christian it is necessary to forgive all
things. In the Lord's prayer we ask Him to forgive us as we forgive those who have offended us. Forgiveness is a necessary act for anyone to have peace. I am not saying she is or is not a Christian and I am not saying all Christians forgive all things. That is a command to us. If we are keeping his commands we will forgive anything and often it is so difficult. Thank you for sharing this.
posted by
Justi
on July 8, 2005 at 11:00 PM
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offbeat--
mainly, she asked God for help. I imagine it was a very long, very difficult process. But there is much more still to her story, and to mine...I will continue writing about it in this blog.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 9:42 PM
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Quirky
Yes, I just walked out into my kitchen to make a cup of tea. I was thinking about your post wondering more about the situation. Thinking how this woman forgave. She is special. Letting go of hate and revenge and all those issues is healthy for a soul. I don't know what the right answer is here except to say when I was making my tea, I thought about another son that was murdered. Brutal murder, and his Mother forgave as did his divine Father.
posted by
Offy
on July 8, 2005 at 9:35 PM
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offbeat--
she had four other children--she had to find a way to live--for them!!
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 9:28 PM
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Quirky
That is one tough question. Some people are filled with so much anger and hate they don't forgiveness. This woman is truely special. I don't think I could what she did. Not because of hate, but if someone killed my child, they will have killed me too. I would die w/o my children. I can not think of any of my children dying before me. I know it happens, but for me, I would rather die than live without them.
posted by
Offy
on July 8, 2005 at 9:23 PM
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MysticG,
So very true...thanks for your wonderful comment.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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Quirky
alot of people just don't get that forgiveness isn't about the other person, its healing power and grace often overflow unto the recepient of forgiveness, but it is the heart that forgives that has bitterness and hatred replaced with endless love.
posted by
MysticGmekeepr
on July 8, 2005 at 4:14 PM
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zenresistance,
I agree that to forgive--or not to forgive--is a personal choice. No one has the right to condemn another for making one choice or the other...but in reality, they do it all the time.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 11:44 AM
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Point of view
That's part what forgiveness is, a point of view, and it's nobody's business but yours how you view it. You may believe forgiveness is healthy and a good thing, or you may hold forgiveness in the highest contempt. That choice belongs to the individual who has to do it. I am frequently torn on the subject myself, in theory and in practice. I do not, however, give much of a right damn what people think about whom I choose to forgive or not. Forgiveness is the same as moving a mountain, stopping the wind with their hands, climbing the highest tree, breaking the sound barrier, etc.
It's only the person that has to actually
do it whose attitude and intention on the matter counts.
posted by
zenresistance
on July 8, 2005 at 11:35 AM
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MayB--
it's those residuals, lol...
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 11:27 AM
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QuirkyAlone, I know you do understand fully. Hey--I have just been consoled by my earnings--amazing this month given I wrote next to nothing
posted by
Azur
on July 8, 2005 at 11:04 AM
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MayB--
I know exactly how you feel, believe me.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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That's good Quirky. I'm off now--this place is not so friendly today. Thanks for being my reader today. Actually it might be good if it stays quiet for me then I won't get caught up again
posted by
Azur
on July 8, 2005 at 10:53 AM
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MayB,
Yes, I think it was the only way she could survive. As for your last question...yes in a way...all of my posts about it here are the "first step"--they are helping me to understand what I want to say and how to go about it.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 10:47 AM
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Anything is possible -- it is only people who get in the way. I think having forgiveness must be the only way that she can live out her life. Are you writing this yet?
posted by
Azur
on July 8, 2005 at 10:37 AM
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vibrance,
nice to see you, and thanks for your nice comment.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 10:31 AM
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forgiveness
you raise some wonderful issues in this post. Pure love. That is what god is. Wonderful read. Thank you so much. Love, Vib
posted by
Vibrance
on July 8, 2005 at 10:13 AM
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Ariala,
I think it's true that people who have faith in God are able to forgive more so than non-believers. Thanks for reading.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 9:47 AM
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tiger,
yes I was very angry with her, mostly for the pain it was causing my mother. But you're right, anger eats people alive and they often don't even know it. So I'm glad that I can now see her side and think of her in a different light.
posted by
Julia.
on July 8, 2005 at 9:46 AM
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Yes, I believe we can because ultimately I also believe that God will not
forgive someone who doesn't forgive others...the Bible so much as says that. Good post.
posted by
Ariala
on July 8, 2005 at 8:39 AM
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What a strong woman. I can see though where you would want to be angry with her though for the fact that she kept bringing it up. Anger and hatred are things that will eat you alive, and the sooner you're able to release it, the better you off you are. What helps me is to know that someday everyone will be held accountable for what they've done, and God is a just God who knows everything.
posted by
tigerprincess
on July 8, 2005 at 7:21 AM
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shadow--
it truly is a great gift--whether given to others or to ourselves.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:27 PM
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katray--
what an exceptional, insightful comment--I think you are exactly right in your interpretation. Thank you so much for commenting.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:27 PM
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Quirky,
I consider one of the most valuable gifts we can give is forgiveness. Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on July 7, 2005 at 8:50 PM
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Very moving and thought provoking post Quirky
To fully forgive is seeing God in his purest light I believe - a vision too many of us are not able to reach. I try to keep my heart open to this grace, but I must admit there are times when I've struggled to forgive others. We have to keep trying or else we wander in darkness. This woman is indeed special; she should be venerated for her unconditional love, not condemned or criticized, for it is truly a gift. I suppose those who cannot see this are lost in the darkness themselves...Thank you for sharing this.
posted by
Katray2
on July 7, 2005 at 8:47 PM
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word.smith,
yes...because the negative thoughts can derail the process.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 6:45 PM
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Alf, thanks.
That's probably true.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 6:44 PM
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True,
I'm decided to forgive before and then found myself thinking hateful thoughts about the person. It then takes a conscious decision to try and remember that I decided to forgive.
posted by
word.smith
on July 7, 2005 at 5:53 PM
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Quirky...
I couldn't agree more. Hate is a corrosive poison. I would even go so far as to say those who can not forgive will never be truly happy people, because hate and happiness cannot abide in each others presense.
posted by
A_Norseman
on July 7, 2005 at 5:37 PM
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FactorFiction, thanks.
Yes I am planning to write a book...these posts I consider to be a little like the first step.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 3:02 PM
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jimmy68,
As do I. Welcome to the club. ;-)
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 3:00 PM
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word.smith,
sometimes it is a *very* long road but you know what? sometimes it can be as simple as making the choice to forgive, asking God to help you get there, and being conscious of the thoughts you have about the person you want to forgive.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 2:59 PM
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Yes, if she had talked about forgiveness, but not
gone to his grave with your mother, I would have a hard time believing that woman's sincerity. Good post Quirky. Your themes here, while difficult for you, are truly interesting. Are you collecting them into something for publication someday? You should.
posted by
FactorFiction
on July 7, 2005 at 1:27 PM
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We probably should...
because nursing hatred is like swallowing poison and waiting for your enemy to die. I've gotten pretty good at forgiveness...but there are some things I would rather die than forgive...I still have some spiritual work to do it seems...
posted by
jimmy68
on July 7, 2005 at 12:54 PM
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It is a long hard road to forgiveness.
It achievable, but it takes much work.
posted by
word.smith
on July 7, 2005 at 12:44 PM
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Passionflower,
re: the broken vessel...that made me laugh but it is SO true! And I am the same way...forgiving myself is a thousand times harder than forgiving others.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:34 AM
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SincerityAnna,
I don't know what she did...but I wish---truly---that it could be different for you--and for her. But I do (think) I understand your feelings.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:32 AM
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Excellent Post...I've learned so much about forgiveness these past
Few years...You know who the hardest person for me to forgive turned out to be???
It was me...yes, that's right. I couldn't/wouldn't forgive myself. I wanted to be punished for what happened. Surely it was my fault. I'm still struggling with conflicting feelings about my self-worth. But at least I haven't given in yet.
Thanks for the great comment you just left in my blog. It made me cry but I knew you were right. It takes a broken vessel to know a broken vessel.
posted by
Passionflower
on July 7, 2005 at 9:30 AM
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Quirky...
I finally found forgivness for my dad, after he walked out of my life at age 13 and just decided to finally pop back in a few months ago...but my mother??? I will NEVER find forgivness for her...
posted by
SincerityAnna
on July 7, 2005 at 9:14 AM
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mmm-w,
your comment gave me chills. Remarkable things can happen when people are able to see the humanity in others, and yes, God Bless both of these women for their courage and strength.
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:14 AM
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SincerityAnna,
I know, I understand how you feel...truly I do...forgiveness is much easier to say than to do...I'm still not there with my father and he didn't do anything nearly so "bad."
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:11 AM
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MiaElla,
thank you for your kind words. I agree, true forgiveness is one of the hardest things humans need to do, but it
can be done!
posted by
Julia.
on July 7, 2005 at 9:10 AM
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beautiful post....
you are exactly right about forgiveness. it is uncomfortable for many to let go of something enough to forgive, but it is also crucial for quality of life....
i knew a woman once, in a similar position as the one you said only it was a man who stalked her and killed her husband. she forgave him, (after time) visited him in prison, counseled with him and eventually vouched for him at a parole hearing. she was released, she took him in. to this day he is completely reformed and like a son to her..... i remind myself of her story often........ could i do it? doubtful, but God bless her for being strong enough.
God bless this woman as well, i am unsure i could do it but i guess we never really know.
posted by
mmm-w
on July 7, 2005 at 9:09 AM
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Quirky...
I guess it should be...but that's one of those things easier said than done...I'm not sure if I could ever forgive anyone who took my child from me...I'm just not so sure...
posted by
SincerityAnna
on July 7, 2005 at 9:03 AM
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Quirky
This is a deeply moving post...forgiveness is the hardest thing a person can do, and also the greatest...it takes so much strength...this is an amazing story.
posted by
MiaElla
on July 7, 2005 at 9:00 AM
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