Go to I WRITE, THEREFORE I AM
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- Go to The "BEAST" has a name, so please use it...
MysticG--
thank you very much for your comment.
posted by
Julia.
on September 11, 2005 at 12:41 PM
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Quirky-girl
you are absolutely 100% right! People just are not willing to look at their own humaness and all its capacity for being both a hero and a "monster"....we have the same seeds, the same potential, and to believe otherwise is foolish indeed. Yes, we are all connected, all from the same source. Good post girl-friend!
posted by
MysticGmekeepr
on September 11, 2005 at 12:13 PM
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Reni - I lived in Oklahoma for 8 centuries...it wins as the hickiest I've
lived in, and I've sure experienced the equal in Kansas and Missouri and when I traveled in places in other states..... and sure, parts of Texas are that way all the time but not everywhere and it definitely has its own identity, which is what I love - it has loads of color. I've gotten tons of laughs from your posts, but they don't reflect my experience on a day-to-day basis at all - I've been gone many years and am now living back here 2 months and then back to KC a month, and so forth. I had a wonderful experience growing up here and never lost my identity as a Texan....you're honestly the first Texan I've even known who has - but, when I read your posts, I can understand why you might have wanted to. I hope this time around is a much better experience for you. Sometime, you and Passion and I will have to get together and have some fun.
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 7:00 PM
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kris--You have to admit...This state does provide alot of material when
it comes to making fun. Heck, my own family (and generalizations of them) provide well over half my material. For you, I'll write a post on this matter. Soon, I promise!
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 6:44 PM
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And, Reni...You don't just live in Texas...you ARE a Texan!
And, I knew you weren't upset at me....we were just tangled over words....but I am glad you were going to say something nice about your state, because I have been waiting for you to do that....I knew you would. And, I could take that drink...but on top of these pain pills, probably not a good idea!!
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 6:41 PM
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Just say it...I'm a nut.
But you'd love me if you met me...
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 6:38 PM
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Smells good to me!
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 6:36 PM
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reni--
you're a real filbert...or maybe more a macadamia/cashew cross...lol.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 6:36 PM
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Group hug! I'll even let you Republicans in! lol
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 6:32 PM
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And spread rosemary around, if you want to kill the stench in here.
I just planted some and it smells soooo good. See, another good thing about TX--I can plant some really cool things. But quit making me say nice things. It ruins the whole facade I've been working on.
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 6:32 PM
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Krisles--For the record, I may make fun of TX, but NEVER have I
bashed Texas as a whole. I just make fun of the people living around here--which I did in NE, too. lol I was born and raised here when I was younger. And besides, after Hurricane Katrina, I have never been prouder to live in a state than I do now. TX has done so much, which I was actually getting ready to write about. And I never was mad or anything (which I get the feeling you think I am), nor did I ever think you were upset with me. So let's both clean our boots up and head over to the saloon for a spell. I hear there are lots of rednecks to make fun of in there! lol
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 6:30 PM
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krisles--
not to worry, girl. We should just mop the floor, spray some lavendar essential oil in the air and call it a day. lol.
:-)
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 6:27 PM
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Quirky
Sorry I got so carried away in your comments....I'm just not a name-caller and have never understood it about anything so several of the posts over the last week or so have upset me, not from the different opinion standpoint, from the hate standpoint....I'm just an old flower child! I should have just left my comments about that out of it. I need to go paint my flowers in my own blog! And I really do love Reni....and you.
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 6:20 PM
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Reni
You aren't bad! Quit putting words in my mouth...you're good except when you badmouth my state!! I'm inconsistent as hell lot's of times....I cannot seem to make myself clear here and keep steppin' in it...I certainly understand the feelings that some people are monsters....I wasn't saying that in the first place....I have that initial reaction many times and have to cycle through them....and I'm not clear where I stand personally on the death penalty. I'm just trying to say that I don't understand people saying they couldn't call people monsters and all those names and be judgemental about their actions...that we should separate the actions from the person, etc., etc....when I'd seen such hatefulness toward Bush...I just don't understand being more willing to not be judgemental toward a murderer than a politician or toward anyone...I think there is too much of it everywhere...that we are too unkind to our fellow travelers in general. I haven't come lookin' for you to spank you for bein' such a bad girl about Texas.... Can I please clean my shoes up and get out of this stuff?
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 6:15 PM
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reni--
Thanks for the additional info. For me personally, it goes beyond a relationship i might have--I just don't think anyone should label another a "monster" no matter how horrible their actions were.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 6:09 PM
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tiger--
I'm not sure if I believe people can ever go "beyond" help, but I understand what you are saying. Thanks for commenting.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 6:07 PM
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krisles--
Thanks for your comment. I agree with you, I have seen a lot of people who can't seem to pick a stand, and not just with this but with many things. I guess it boils down to wanting to please everyone or as many people as possible. I can't, though.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 6:06 PM
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Kris--Okay, I understand now. Me bad. Well, at least I'm consistent, if
nothing else. lol
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 4:50 PM
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Reni
I think you misinterpreted my comment...I was talking about the folks who were talking so strongly about how could anyone call Quirky's brother a monster, who had been calling Bush a monster all week. My hat is off to you for having been consistent.
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 2:57 PM
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And Quirk--We don't disagree entirely. After all, my own father was
convicted (and served time) for commiting an unmentionable act against a child. He never did reform his ways (until now that he's too old to act on them), but I still can't help but look at him as my father, and not a monster. I've thought that about BTK. I'm sure his children don't view him as a monster(although I do). They just see a Dad who's done some really horrible things. I think it's really a matter of perspective and relationship to the accused, really. But it's your right.
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 2:43 PM
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KRISLES--Love ya babe, but I don't think you're one to be talking
about contradictions. You don't understand those of us here (on Blogit) who can label ANYONE a monster (even a serial killer), yet you defend the man who does that very thing by allowing (advocating) the death penalty? Kris--We're all full of contradictions, my dear. It's what makes us human. Until next time my blogging friend...
posted by
Renigade
on September 9, 2005 at 2:40 PM
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Quirky, it has a nice ring to it
posted by
Azur
on September 9, 2005 at 2:29 PM
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I agree. I believe at the heart of every "evil" person is a sickness that needs to be addressed. Some people go beyond hlep but that doesn't make them any less deserving of a chance to get better and recover.
posted by
tigerprincess
on September 9, 2005 at 1:44 PM
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Quirky
Let me hasten to add....I mean this about only some of the names, of course, and don't mean that everyone should not express their views about both topics....I just don't understand. Hatefulness is hatefulness to me.
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 1:31 PM
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Quirky
Great post...and I agree so wholeheartedly with you...and feel with all my heart for the pain you've had to endure. Now, I'm going to put my head on the chopping block and make the comment that I don't think this principle applies just to murderers and such. I am amazed when I read up through the names connected to the comments they made with such compassion for you about how we must not call people monsters and such, must separate actions from the person....and recall how I've seen such vile remarks about President Bush from these same people over the past few days. I don't quite know how to reconcile that ....I personally cannot be one way about one thing, and such a completely differnent way about another...it just doesn't compute with my personal logic system.
posted by
Krisles
on September 9, 2005 at 1:28 PM
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thanks...
for your healing thoughts...it helped...i am feeling better:)
posted by
Marshallengraved
on September 9, 2005 at 12:56 PM
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Toker--
I know--there are a lot of comments and probably just as many who stayed silent because they disagreed...
That was a good teaching you received--it is so difficult, but so worthwhile to practice that. Thanks for adding YOUR comment here!
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 12:50 PM
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Quirks,
Wow..........there are a lot of comments on this!!!!!!!...........all I'm going to say is this, religiously I was taught hate the behavior, not the person.................
posted by
Jaxson-Pete
on September 9, 2005 at 12:36 PM
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upatree--
yes, I think most people call them monsters because they can't bear the thought that they are human beings--too much like themselves...so, labeling them monsters distances them from the person, in their minds.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 12:20 PM
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judgment
really powerful expression, quirk. thanks for being so clear & for sharing your story.
i think we often mix up judgment with faulty judgment, though. making judgments of various sorts is how human beings move through the world - from 'i like this' to 'that is a car moving quickly towards me' to 'that's a bad/good thing to do.' (all of which happen more quickly & in a manner we don't use explicit language for.)
judgment, in & of itself, isn't just good, it's unavoidable. the trick is to a)know when you're using it & b)use it wisely & thoughtfully.
i agree that calling people dehumanizing names is a cheap out for those who do it. do you think they are using the names as emotional stand-ins? i agree w/ gubby that dehumanizing the actors in horrible situations allows us to buttress ourselves against our own frailties.
posted by
upatreewithoutapaddle
on September 9, 2005 at 11:54 AM
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LLM--
thanks...it is good to see you here.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 11:00 AM
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jillian--
your prayers are sincerely appreciated. just to let you know, though--my brother killed himself 30 years ago.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:59 AM
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dog1net--
yes...I see you understand...we are all the same. thanks for commenting.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:58 AM
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katray--
If you really pay attention, you'd be surprised how often you hear that word used to describe a human being. How sad.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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Bright--
thanks very much.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:56 AM
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renigade--
I understand how difficult is is to see people like that as human beings--their actions were monstrous...but I believe they still have a soul, and are therefore still a human being. I know we disagree on this; it is okay I can see your point of view even if I don't agree with you.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:55 AM
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prisondairy--
thank you for your most kind words.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:52 AM
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offbeat--
yes, it is indeed sad. thanks for reading.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:50 AM
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Adaman,
Well, that is an interesting way to think about it...something for me to mull over. thanks for your comment.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:50 AM
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I guess there is nothing to add which hasn't been already said. It's all very sad!
posted by
Offy
on September 9, 2005 at 10:43 AM
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I think there are people who try to be for the most part, constructive
and other people who try to be, for the most part, destructive. We all can be either constructive or destructive temporarily, but what is our overall motive in life? To be helpful, or to tear others down? What do our
actions reveal....? We better look at
motive ahead of time, or else we'll only be coming up with descriptive labels like "monster" or "animal" after the fact. These labels are
useless except as descriptive, if inaccurate and offensive, representations of either a temporary or chronic condition. If we spot
motive ahead of time, and have some goodness and guts, maybe we can prevent these acts because we'd be able to predict them better.
posted by
Adaman
on September 9, 2005 at 10:32 AM
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Dave,
thanks for your succinct comment.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:29 AM
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gubby--
I think judgement makes people feel better about their own frailties.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:28 AM
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MayB--
Oh...tell me you just didn't call me "that" name on purpose--I think it was a typo--lol.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:27 AM
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cosy--
no problem, thanks for the clarification though.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:25 AM
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Isa--
I agree with you, it is hard to understand...and definitely hard not to see that some are human...but still...they are.
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:24 AM
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Mia--
I knew what you meant, thanks...It was a funny typo though...
posted by
Julia.
on September 9, 2005 at 10:23 AM
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And I meant "way"....my brain's on the slow side today
posted by
MiaElla
on September 9, 2005 at 10:11 AM
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Quirkyalone
Why to go.....
I agree with you
posted by
MiaElla
on September 9, 2005 at 10:05 AM
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yea...you are probably right...
the acts ppl commit are evil, not the ppl who commit them...but it is hard to understand what goes on in the head of a paedophile or a murderer....
also, i know that under specific circumstances anybody can become a potential murderer...
the less we judge, the better it is...true, Quirky:)
posted by
Marshallengraved
on September 9, 2005 at 8:32 AM
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Quirk I just re-read my comment...
Please know when I said "no one has the right to take someone's life" I meant the death penalty...I feel so stupid. Please don't take it wrongly. I meant it the other way...sorry.
posted by
cosy
on September 9, 2005 at 8:10 AM
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Sometimes QQ there are many layers indeed
posted by
Azur
on September 9, 2005 at 8:05 AM
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"those who judge have every bit the capability to commit an evil act as the "monsters" do"
--Further, I would say that judgement gives people an excuse to commit evil acts that they wouldn't have otherwise. There is vengence and there is justice; most people seem to think of justice as "legal vengence", or deserved, but it isn't, it's simply a way of making society a safer place. You are so right..
posted by
Gubby
on September 9, 2005 at 7:06 AM
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Well said,
QQ.
posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on September 9, 2005 at 1:23 AM
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I can see the truth, and best when I know I have never done it and sometimes, like what I have found, it is sheer momentary act that makes them culpits, but then there are few who would defy our taking them as human. They are exceptions, I know how much they needed love and every act of kindness has sometime led to tears, even inside the prison. Kudos for a expressive post, I sincerely do believe if everybody had a brother and sister like you then this would be a better planet to live. Prison diary
posted by
prisondairy
on September 8, 2005 at 10:40 PM
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And what of Jeffrey Dahmer and BTK? I'm sorry, but they ARE
monsters. Just because your brother wasn't one doesn't mean that they don't exist. Although I understand exactly where you're coming from here... Take care.
posted by
Renigade
on September 8, 2005 at 8:46 PM
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Depending on the situation...
Some people kill in self defense, others choose to kill. They are in their right minds, know its wrong and still do it....thats what makes me sick. Somewhere there used to be a saying"an eye for an eye" and thats what I believe in.
posted by
KODACHROME1970
on September 8, 2005 at 8:01 PM
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Quirkyalone
Thinking of you during these hard times that you are having.
posted by
BrightIrish
on September 8, 2005 at 7:51 PM
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I was reminded of this powerful truth a few days ago
A good friend of my son's confessed to a drug/rage induced horrific attack against his girlfriend. Up until that terrible night, he had been a source of comfort, listening and friendship to my son during some personal trials over a period of months. We've cringed while listening to news reports describing him as an out of control monster. Out of control, yes, monster no.
Powerful post Quirky.
posted by
Katray2
on September 8, 2005 at 6:52 PM
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Exactly
One of the hardest lessons I learned as a parent, and I thank God I learned it early, is to never fault the child for mistakes or poor choices. Label or comment on the act or the behavior, but not the person, because we are all the same. When we start to see people as different , we not only demean them, but we also demean ourselves.
posted by
dog1net
on September 8, 2005 at 6:35 PM
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Quirky,
God loves those that know him, that ask for forgivness of there sins. That truely find there path with the Lord and who except Jesus Christ as there savior and speaks the words with there mouth. Jesus the very one who died for them and washed away our sins with his very blood. I respect your feelings about your brother. I too have a brother that has done evil sins. Although, he has not found Jesus Christ as his savior and I am afraid he will not walk with Jesus in the end. He will find his path in Hell. He is none the less a human and I hope one day he WILL ask for forgivness of his sins, but for now I do still love him but I am afraid of the path he will walk in eternity. No matter how big or small we all must ask Jesus to forgive us our sins and be humble before him.
With much respect, I do appreciate your love for your brother, I understand. He is not animal but he must ask Jesus to forgive his sins. Prayers are with you in this hardship. I will pray for both you and your brother.
posted by
Jillians.New-Beginning
on September 8, 2005 at 6:34 PM
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Quirky,
I could not agree more....
posted by
lovelyladymonk
on September 8, 2005 at 6:33 PM
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Shadow,
that's another good quote, thanks.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:32 PM
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Frankenkitty--
yes, true...we're all the same. Thanks for stopping in tonight.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:32 PM
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Spitfire--
I too wish people could understand that concept. Thanks.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:31 PM
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Ariala--thanks--
that's exactly what I expressed to ZenLady about Hitler. It doesn't matter what any human has done, they are still loved by God. I know plenty of people will disagree with that, but it is my belief. Thanks for reading.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:30 PM
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Quirky,
"Let the first person without sin cast the stone". Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on September 8, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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MayB--
Peel back the layers and they are indeed a human being.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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ZenLady--
I appreciate that you expressed a different opinion. However, it is my belief that Hitler was still a human being, and as such, he was just as loved by God as every other human being has been or will be. I know you disagree, and that is allright with me. Thank you for commenting.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:27 PM
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MissMary--
I think you're right, for some it is a coping mechanism. Thank you for your comment.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 5:23 PM
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I agree 100%. People
are quick to give everyone else their justice until it's their turn to pay. Then they wiggle just like snakes. It makes us all either animals or human, but we are all either one or the other. Together. Good post!
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on September 8, 2005 at 3:51 PM
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Quirky,
I wish people would understand that mental illness is just the same physical illness as diabetes, Lupus, Cancer, M.S., etc. All diseases have effects on a human. Mental illness effects behavior just as M.S. effects physical movement. Many don't see it in the scientific medical light. I do believe that there are dark souls that choose to utilize negativity, but there are souls with mental illness that can be a good soul just as the next.
posted by
SpitFire70
on September 8, 2005 at 3:36 PM
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Yes, I think that underneath all of the layers, no matter how vile and incomprehensible they may be, there is always a human.
posted by
Azur
on September 8, 2005 at 3:31 PM
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Quirky, I believe we're all prone to good and bad deeds...and I will keep
this in mind in the future when I am quick to throw a label on someone. Murder is evil, but God loves the murderer, despite his deeds...thanks for the insight. Good post.
posted by
Ariala
on September 8, 2005 at 3:28 PM
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You say: "The people who commit evil acts are STILL human beings. To call them beasts and monsters dishonors the one who gave them life, and desecrates humanity in the process."
I beg to differ. My husband and I just returned from a vacation in Europe. We decided that before we left Austria, we would visit Mauthausen, which was a concentration camp during WWII.
I stood in the very room where thousands of human beings were gassed. I stood in the very room where those same people were incinerated in ovens. I have NEVER been so moved. I was overwhelmed, (and I'm pretty tough).
Hitler and his henchmen were less than human. To view them in any other way "desecrates humanity".
Zen
posted by
ZenLady05
on September 8, 2005 at 3:24 PM
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Quirk
Monsters don't exist any more then saints do. We are all just people floundering around looking for a path. People use names like monster to justify the death penalty. Plus its easier to accept the idea that the ones who do horrible things are not anything like you.
Aside from all that, I am always amazed at how strong you are.
MissMary
posted by
MissMary
on September 8, 2005 at 3:24 PM
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cosy--
Yes, it's literal. Thanks for reading and commenting.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 2:44 PM
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Quirk...this is literal?? Deep message...
I too believe that no one has a right to judge or much less take someone's life...only God. Love Cosy and many hugs~
posted by
cosy
on September 8, 2005 at 2:32 PM
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whacky--
I think it's more a matter that both--or the potential for both--exist simultaneously, in everyone.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 2:28 PM
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sandi--
yes he did pay for his mistakes with his life, not that this erases the pain for any of his victims families or my family. I can tell you understand what I am trying to convey in that post, and thank you for your comment.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 2:17 PM
| link to this | reply
schree--thanks for your comment.
I wasn't really saying people should feel all warm and fuzzy towards a murderer or any other person who has done horrible things--but that they are still human beings regardless--and so to call them monsters and such, is dishonoring the one who gave them life.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 2:14 PM
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Hummm...I been thinking
Maybe evil is the absence of good just as darkness is the absence of light...then if the lights go out they always come back as night turns to day. So evil goes away as the good comes back and a lesson is learned. Hey! who turned off the lights?
posted by
Whacky
on September 8, 2005 at 2:14 PM
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I had a conversation with a client today who's trying to find her place of forgiveness. I asked her if she was a perfect human being. She replied no. I asked her if she'd made mistakes in her life. She answered yes. I suggested how sad it would be if her entire essence as a human being was judged solely on her mistakes... would it be a fair assessment of who she is? She didn't think so... neither do I. I suspect your brother was multi dimensional too Quirk... we all are good and bad, the duality of all things in this Universe. Sounds as though he made a few bad choices... and perhaps he paid for them with his life... I don't know the story... but I agree with you, he remains always valuable. Sandi
posted by
Sandra_Harris
on September 8, 2005 at 2:06 PM
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Hi Quirky..
Hi Quirky!! I totally get how you feel. He's your brother, and you love him. You're probably injured by the harsh criticism of him. However, when a loved one has been coldly taken away from you, it's hard to feel for the person who did it. My brother's wife was murdered in the late 70's..Her body found months later in an abandoned building in Philadelphia..I can't help but wonder how this has affected my niece and nephew..She was 12 and he was 10..Schree`
posted by
Schree
on September 8, 2005 at 2:01 PM
| link to this | reply
thank you avant--
I had a feeling you would understand what I was trying to say.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 1:58 PM
| link to this | reply
Factor--
Yeah, I probably will take some flak for this, but I wanted to say it anyway and take my lumps as they come.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 1:57 PM
| link to this | reply
Medusa--thanks for your comment--
of course, I realize that my beliefs may differ from the consensus, but I appreciate your candor and sincerity.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 1:56 PM
| link to this | reply
Ben--
sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
posted by
Julia.
on September 8, 2005 at 1:55 PM
| link to this | reply
quirky
well said. to call them bad would be to call ourselves bad. good post.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 8, 2005 at 1:51 PM
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I think the average person feels a lot more comfortable
thinking of a serial murderer as "not human" for a few reasons. First, it's easier to think of such a person as not having any feelings for anyone else, no loved ones, no families who care about them. It's easier to think they are completely alone in the world, a separate species somehow. One of the things that is fascinating about some of the blogs you write is that they require that I realign my stereotypes of killers that I have learned via the media and fictional mysteries. I suppose you may take flak over this post, but good job Quirky
posted by
FactorFiction
on September 8, 2005 at 1:47 PM
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Quirky...I love my family so much...I get what you are saying...
because I would still feel love for a member of my family who had done evil acts. I could never hate a member of my family...I'm not sure all your comments will be like mine, but I do understand what you are trying to say in a most sincere and pure way.
posted by
MedusaNextDoor
on September 8, 2005 at 1:45 PM
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People make mistakes all the time. Some small, some big. Then life continues after the mistakes.
Ben.
posted by
A-and-B
on September 8, 2005 at 1:42 PM
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