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Prayer is like psycho-therapy.
If you have two groups of people with mental health problems, and one group gets psycho-therapy, and the other group gets nothing, then about 50% of the people in each group will get better and about 50% will get worse. So you could take those two groups, pray for one group, but not for the other. About 50% of one group will be helped by prayer. And about 50% of the group not prayed for will also be helped.
posted by
ritchie
on September 19, 2003 at 12:36 AM
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i will
posted by
chick312
on September 17, 2003 at 1:31 PM
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Chick312, Ask your friend if he was aware of the actual
hostage situation when it took place. Perhaps he was in Brazil at the time.
posted by
Cynthia
on September 17, 2003 at 1:16 PM
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sounds like a great film
i have a new friend who travels to brazil a lot for work. i'm seeing him tonight. this info will be an excellent conversation starter
posted by
chick312
on September 17, 2003 at 10:05 AM
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Oh yes.
I do. I try to see the connectedness as it were. As someone who lives at a bare subsistance level and often below it, I get a good hard look at reality far away from the American Ideal of Middle Class Bliss. I'm not looking for a handout, I want a way to get up out of the muck and into a life of my own.
posted by
telynor
on September 16, 2003 at 9:08 PM
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Telynor, It's not just the praying and the doing
it's the knowing. Do you use your brain and do you understand the interconnectedness of things? So in my book, even doing good is not enough. I prefer science, law, provable, demonstable results over blind faith.
posted by
Cynthia
on September 16, 2003 at 7:53 PM
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All I can say is...
The old Prayer vs. Action debate rolls on. "Pray as though everything depends on God, act as though everything depends on you." I can't change the slums and misery in this world, but I
can try to make my little corner of this one as good as I possibly can.
posted by
telynor
on September 16, 2003 at 3:51 PM
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True Prayer is Action, Nothing Else
Otherwise, it is no more than a way for people to absolve responsibility for taking action. Sadly, this is what most people choose to do. Your piece was excellent, and I hope you choose to write more about such things.
posted by
ShawnMichel
on September 16, 2003 at 1:39 PM
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Ariala and Willow
I don't question any right that either of you have in your belief, or in the good that you feel when you use prayer in your daily lives.
But if prayer blinds you to seeking out the root causes of bad things in the world, if prayer is just a knee jerk reaction, and your reasoning about WHY things happen ends with, "well, that's just the way things are" - that's what I have a problem with. It is the decisions of men and women, other human beings that create the world we live in, not acts of God. Even the weather on some important level is being vastly affected by the decisions man has made. Global warming for instance.
The scientists who study weather say that there has been a noted increase in severe storms that goes beyond the normal patterns of weather fluctuation that is definitely being exacerbated by the acts of man on this planet.
Now, if you chose to believe that all natural phenomena are acts of God, then there is no hope to address these problems.
posted by
Cynthia
on September 16, 2003 at 11:31 AM
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Cynthia, prayer is a verb like love...
With prayer comes action...prayer
is active...if I tell someone I love them, and don't act on that love then my love is empty. Faith
is active...if you tell me you will walk across Niagra Falls on a tight rope and I say I believe you can do it, that's one part of faith, but if you ask me to come with you on your shoulders, then it takes active faith for me to actually climb on your shoulders and go across. True faith works -- in other words, you can see someone's faith by their works. Prayer is the same way. By praying we are working in cooperation with a higher source. We become co-creators in what we pray about. We begin to act in a way that wills an action...that's my two cents worth. Thanks!
posted by
Ariala
on September 16, 2003 at 8:41 AM
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You make some sound and extremely valid points. Some religions actually go to the point of saying this life is hell and all the faithful have to look forward to is the after-life and that is pitiful. I am fully aware that the act of totally relying on prayer without taking decisive action oneself is not only dangerous but irresponsible. You know the old saw, "God helps those who help themselves".
For the past 24 hours I have been praying that God will bolster the spirits of those in the path of Isabel. I've been praying that somehow the lose of life and destruction will be lessened. Pray tell, how does that help ME feel better?
I think the plight of the poor is a tragedy and you are correct. If we don't take steps to prevent it we could very well end up in the same hell as Rio. I don't know if you read my stuff but I have a deep concern for the homeless here in our own country and do what I can to help. If everyone did even a little bit the results would be spectacular.
The only point I differed with you on was the fact that I believe prayer does have the power to affect situations but prayer with action, now that's a powerful weapon, indeed.
Respectfully,
Willow 
posted by
Gentle-Willow
on September 16, 2003 at 8:33 AM
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I have to agree with you Cynthia.
I suppose that in many situtations, praying is the only thing people feel they can do. However in many cases I always believe they could do something more which might help prevent a bad thing happening to someone else or at least to ease the burden for the next victim.
If i can draw an analogy. In recent times for instance when a child dies in dramatic circumstances or someone well-known dies people travel thousands of miles to lay flowers when they haven't even met the deceased. In those cases I think it is more helpful to set up or take part in something that will protect future victims or donate to a charity, or take part in an individual act of charity and be more watchful in ones own day to day life.
posted by
beachbelle
on September 16, 2003 at 8:33 AM
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Willow
Can I ask you how, in your experience, you can prove that prayer improved the situation for anyone else other than you, the person who was doing the praying?
Granted, prayer helps some people feel better, which I guess in bad times, anything that makes anyone feel better is O.K. - but I think prayer is dangerous. It soothes people into believing that they do not have to take action, that they can just sit back and watch as God takes care of things.
Despotic leaders in all times in all parts of the world have relied on the religious faith of the masses to help them stay in power. Keep the people stupid and uninformed. Let them be ruled by fantasy and belief. Allow them to ignore the reality they face every day by thinking there is a better life to come. This is irrational and will lead us to hell on earth.
posted by
Cynthia
on September 16, 2003 at 8:11 AM
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This is a damn good article/documentary but I disagree with you about prayer. That's like asking why God let's bad things happen?
I respect your opinion but I just had to address this. Good luck with your film endeavour.
Willow
Willow
posted by
Gentle-Willow
on September 16, 2003 at 8:00 AM
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