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Lensman,
hey, nice to see you!
This is a very thorny issue. One would hope that, over time, a gradual process of 'acculturation' would help to defuse what is becoming a severe problem. In the shorter term there appears to be little hope for that, in spite of individual cases. (Partly because we do little to foster that development, but instead bend over backwards to accommodate even the most unreasonable demands, as these little examples show; PC at its idiotic worst!
)
posted by
Nautikos
on October 5, 2006 at 2:32 PM
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LeRoy
you are absolutely right! Our media haven't touched this at all! If anything remotely similar to the kind of material that is found in some Islamic schools were taught in our regular schools, all hell would break loose, and rightly so!
posted by
Nautikos
on October 5, 2006 at 10:42 AM
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Blanche,
it's nice that we can agree...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 5, 2006 at 10:38 AM
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Nautikos
I share your concerns.
Also, after that recent nonsense about the Pope, I believe I've lost all patience with certain Muslims, i.e., the ones who love to be insulted. Any excuse to have hysterics in the streets. In that respect, Islam needs to get over itself.
Drama queens.
I am encouraged by a couple of recent news items out of Australia, though. A young Muslim girl recently joined and won a beauty pageant in Sydney or Melbourne. Naturally, Muslim elders had conniptions about it, but she basically gave them the finger and told them she was sticking with it. A week later, a Muslim youth leader made news, saying that he agreed with Australian prime minister Howard's view that Australian Muslims need to learn English and blend more into the Australian mainstream.
We can forget about the adults, but I believe if the Muslim youth in our countries can break away from their oppressive teachings and learn to enjoy our freedoms, the oldsters will die off, suffering the fate of many elders, irrelevance in the eyes of their offspring...only this time well deserved. Of course, open-door immigration will have to be revisited.....
posted by
Lensman
on October 4, 2006 at 10:28 PM
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Naut
Another informative piece; it's amazing that the mass media passes right over this stuff. Hard to remember that most Moslems in the states voted Republican back in 2000. We were the only real Andalusia, where Christians and Muslims got along, and I knew several former Muslims who became Christians. Now Muslims are allowed to pray publically in some public schools here and Christians and others are not.
posted by
LeRoyCoyote
on October 4, 2006 at 11:54 AM
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you're right, there is no conflict, Nautikos. I'll have to ponder this, but
I hear my boyfriend's truck, time to run. See you later.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 7:26 PM
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Blanche.
unfortunately, many people take it to mean that one thing does preclude the other! Which is really strange! It would mean that those who claim to have a conscience would have to admit they have no 'head'.
And just to be nice, to help them avoid that embarrassment, I added my last sentence...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 7:20 PM
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Wiley,
Well, I have no pat answers in my back pocket either, but I do hope that we can retain
something of our Canadian culture and heritage.
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 7:10 PM
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I stand corrrected, Nautikos, on this as well as the weatlh of details you
provided on the Spirit of Chemainus. There is a world of difference between "head" and "conscience", but I still don't believe that one precludes the other.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 7:08 PM
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Blanche.
I too do not remember the exact wording, but I do remember one word exactly, a crucial one, and that is 'head', which you have replaced with 'conscience'. And that is an absolutely fundamental difference. Which, incidentally, does not mean that you should not have a conscience as well!
Bon appetit!
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 7:05 PM
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Nautikos
It is all quite surprising and frightening at the same time. However, I feel that we haven't done enough to make and keep this country in a style we wanted.
Now it's too late methinks.
It is true that because of an open acceptance and tolerance of abortion, we have kind of hurt our growth chances from within.
So, we have accepted immigration I think to increase the tax and business base, and have pretty well given the country away to the immigrants.
I never thought of myself as a racist, or anti-religion because I grew up Catholic, but at this late stage I can see where religion has caused a great deal of strife in the world.
So if we extend the mind somewhat, who ever said we could keep all this land we took from another culture, and keep it all for we European immigrants?
How did you do that Naut? Stop making me think. lol
posted by
WileyJohn
on October 2, 2006 at 6:49 PM
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Nautikos, this will probably be a discussion for another time.
I've love to challenge your premises on that, and I will, but right now, I'm getting dinner ready, and will be logging off for soon. I'm a liberal, I won't even hedge and demur, referring to myself as "progressive". But, hopefuly, I'll be able to clarify to myself, as well, as is the best result of discussions of this kind, as to you, where I'm coming from, and hopefully, find some common ground.
I think we agree that Political Correctness has run amok, but I have not yet fallen into that saw of, I think, Winston Churchill's that goes something like, "A man has no heart if he is not a liberal when he's young, and no conscience if he's not a Conservative when he's 40." I'll have to look up the exact quote, but I think his interpretation implied that the bias of Conservatives is generally towards preserving property, sometiems at the expense of earlier idealism. I look foward to future discussions.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 6:44 PM
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Blanche.
rigid religious orthodoxy can, of course, be terribly stifling. (And as an agnostic, I will never be in danger from that, lol.) But so is liberal orthodoxy.
Because on the whole, and allowing for a variety of qualifications which it would be tedious to elaborate at this time, I have come to the conclusion, supported by a wealth of experience and empirical evidence, that conservatives (cultured conservatives) are less rigid and doctrinaire, and are generally more pleasant and easier to get along with than liberals.
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 6:35 PM
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Nautikos, when I lived in the Flower Power capitol of the Northwest,
Eugene, Oregon, I came to the conclusion early on, to be wary of fanatics of either stripes, from one extrreme to the other. I chose the middle ground, because I don't care if someone is wearing Birkenstocks and spouting Zen mantras, and demanding that we all wear hemp and eat soy, or if it's the other side, who demand that everyone be of the same faith, and march in lockstep to Amazing Grace, I march to the beat of my own drum.
One that, I hope is in tune to some sort of logic and reason. I try to see both sides, but it gets fuzzy at the outer edges.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 6:20 PM
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Well, it seems to me that these people (and for want of a better word let's
keep calling them 'appeasers') are often more rigid, uncompromising and fanatical than the other side, often resorting to means that are anything but peaceful.
When I made that comment, I guess I had in mind an incident here in Toronto, where a peace crowd protesting the presence of our troops in Afghanistan attacked a small group of people demonstrating in support of our troops.
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 6:17 PM
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Hmm, I'm relieved to hear that Freud was wrong about a lot of things.
All that cocaine, I suppose. Anyway, I'm not sure where you're going with the selective appeasing reference. Care to elaborate?
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 5:38 PM
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Blanche.
first of all, Freud was of course wrong, and that's a good thing.
But for another thing (since you brought it up) I have always found this appeasing business interesting. For one thing, have you ever noticed that most appeasers are very selective in their appeasing?
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 5:36 PM
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Moi? An appeaser? Not likely, Nautikos (I typed more carefully there).
I really hope somebody is on the job monitoring the rantings of the mullahs and others, and not merely violating our very own precious right to be free from intrusive warrantless wire taps, for no good reason.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 5:06 PM
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I had to re-read my comment to get the "Freudian slip" reference, Nautikos,
I called you "Hautikos", well, not consciously, of course, lol, but you know what Herr Freud said himself "There are no accidents", but can I be truly held responsible for my unconscious processes? Hmm.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 5:04 PM
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And another thing, Blanche.,
I'm happy you're not one of the 'peace at any price' crowd.
What to do about this problem? It's a very, very complex issue, but for a start we could monitor what is being taught in the madrassahs, both in the States and here in Canada!
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 5:02 PM
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Blanche.
the first thing I did was check out the boat! Nice one! The result is on your blog. By the way, that misspelling of my name, was that a 'Freudian' slip?
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 4:56 PM
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And, getting back to the subject of your post, we have enemies who want
kill us. I'm not one of the peace/love/dove crowd who thinks all you need is love and understanding. There aer people who want to kill us. I get it. What I'm not sure of is what to do about it.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 4:11 PM
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Well, to cool off a little, Nautikos, here is a link to the photo I posted
of the Spirit of Chemainus, the frigate we chartered to sail in the Gulf Islands about 10 years ago. Have a look, I know you like ships (hence the name, Hautikos, I'm assuming):
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/Blanche017863/
posted by
Blanche.
on October 2, 2006 at 4:10 PM
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Straightforward
for an answer to your first question, I refer you to my previous post. As for the rest of your comment...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 2, 2006 at 4:43 AM
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Hey, why are you so anti-Muslim? I don't see anything in those news items
that you should create a hype about. So what if someone wants the headstones in a different direction. Is there a problem only because it has always been in another direction? If you give me a scientific reason, I'll take it.
posted by
Straightforward
on October 1, 2006 at 9:17 PM
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Blanche.
incendiary? Well, there may be a bit of that as well, but on the whole there is far more complacency, apathy, lack of concern and a monumental lack of understanding.
To mention just one issue: most people have no idea what is being taught in some Islamic schools, the madrassahs. If they did, they'd be horrified! But it's not being discussed, neither in the US nor in this country.
Of course, in Britain many Muslim leaders have openly declared that it is their aim to turn it into a Muslim country...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 1, 2006 at 6:56 PM
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TAPS,
yes, as the old saying goes, 'it boggles the mind'...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 1, 2006 at 6:41 PM
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Nautikos, "complacent" is not a word I would use about the political
atmosphere here in general, and about Muslims, in general. Incendiary, is more like it,I think ..
posted by
Blanche.
on October 1, 2006 at 1:19 PM
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HAHAHAHA, Sorry Nautikos, I'm laughing at the comment of ThomasFranklin. The post, however, was very interesting. Now I think I've heard everything. I think that on this beautiful Sunday morning there is someone outside somewhere using his chainsaw in a racist manner. It is kind of ruining the peaceful ambiance of the day. LOL
posted by
TAPS.
on October 1, 2006 at 9:06 AM
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ThomasFranklin,
Really?! How fascinating! Well, it's an experience you will be able to share with your grandchildren!
posted by
Nautikos
on October 1, 2006 at 8:01 AM
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I was down in Sacramento the other day and a guy rode by on a bicycle. He had baggy pants flowing in the wind and a turban on....I thought that he was a genie but he might have been a muslim.
posted by
ThomasFranklin
on September 30, 2006 at 11:47 PM
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