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Gome
It all boils down to this:
Jesus died for one and only one reason - he challenged the beliefs and practices of the established Jewish Orthodox Church. He, from the outset of His ministry, had to know this was the ultimate result of His "sacriledge." As "they" say, it don't take no rocket scientist to figure ...
Gerald
posted by
GEPRUITT
on November 21, 2006 at 11:24 PM
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Blanche. - I haven't just run into them, I'm surrounded by them
But I'm almost finished building the human catapult you see below in my backyard.
When I'm finished, I can begin hurling bible thumpers over the trees into the next county.
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 8:11 PM
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Xeno-x - I see the parallel that you are drawing
Much like the Roman pagans back in the days of Jesus, the modern day fundie has elevated an unrecognizeable, perverted and completely irrational set of doctrines above all other human considerations. They are willing to trample on any person not agreeing with them, regardless of how much common sense or truth that individual may represent. The truth doesn't matter to them, only the advancement of the perverted doctrine matters.
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 7:59 PM
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Gomedome, I guess you've run into more than your fair share of religious
extremists. As a Christian, I try not to fall into those pitfalls. But mysticism is part of my belief systm, so there you have it, sign me up!
posted by
Blanche.
on November 21, 2006 at 7:52 PM
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Parnell - holiness and IQ points are one and the same to some people
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 7:50 PM
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Odysseus - your analogies almost work but you probably aren't aware as to
why they do.
There are parallels that can be drawn in the lives of the great men that you name. There is also no doubt that they were all aware of the inherent risks associated with being the authority challenging personas that they had become known as in the advancement of their respective causes. Our admiration and respect for all of these great men is dramatically enhanced by the very fact that they lost their lives as a result of these efforts. I have to agree; Jesus, Socrates, Gandhi, Martin Luther King were all great men who perservered despite the risks. .....this fact however doesn't make any of them gods, or the son of God and that is where your analogy works. They were all great men.
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 7:47 PM
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Cripes
Somebody compared Jesus with Socrates. That's a bit of an intellectual mis-match...
posted by
Antipodean
on November 21, 2006 at 5:47 PM
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Gomedome – Don’t let your frustration with historical embellishments...
...prevent you from seeing fully the idea behind the sacrifice…….it is the refusal to acquiesce to a lesser state of being, it is choosing death over a substandard life……..why did Socrates not flee instead of staying to take his hemlock? Do you really think MLK didn’t realize he was going to eventually be assassinated? People were already stoning him in the streets! Similarly, Gandhi knowingly put his life on the line constantly in the face of standing for righteousness and likely knew he would eventually be assassinated. There have been many others. Those that stand firm for righteousness, in the face of evil, die for all of us because it is their martyrdom that illuminates our path. They are the blazes along the trail. 
posted by
telemachus
on November 21, 2006 at 3:31 PM
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he was one among many who
challenged mainly the religious authority -- like you and me -- and you see what happens -- we'd be crucified too if the fundies had their way.
but if you look at Matthew 23, you see that this guy Jesus or Yeshua, or whatever, openly called the religious authorities to task with very abrasive language -- almost as if he were setting up his trial and crucifixion (I am of the PASSOVER PLOT crowd, where he really didn't die -- was taken down extremely early) -- he knew the authorities were plotting his death -- he had said so about 6 months before when he told the disciples to go the the festival of tabernacles without him -- but then stood up in the midst and gave the living waters speech.
those who believe have real problems with those who don't. it's that simple. and a guy who is just too popular -- well, you've got to do something about that. they thought they could bypass responsibility by getting Pilate the Roman to do their dirty work for them.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 21, 2006 at 2:04 PM
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Gome, I think you're right
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 21, 2006 at 11:30 AM
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cantey_1975 - I know a few atheists who are nuts as well
But I'm not sure that SoloWriter was insinuating that all believers are insane. I took the preceding comment to mean something a little different in that; those who adhere to a fundamental belief of "oneness" which implies imposing a conformity of belief to the extent of not respecting the individual are insane. With "insane" being used for lack of a better word.
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 9:59 AM
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Hello Canty/Jackie O, long time no see!
posted by
David1Spirit
on November 21, 2006 at 9:56 AM
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David1Spirit how ya doin man?
good to see you back.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 21, 2006 at 9:56 AM
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I agree with Canty; people who believe in Jesus as the savior aren't insane
A bit misguided/misinformed perhaps, but not all of them are insane.
Some are actually very good and productive people.
posted by
David1Spirit
on November 21, 2006 at 9:54 AM
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solowriter you should make an attempt to reel yourself in a little here
not all people who believe in God or believe that Jesus Christ are insane. You are being a little careless.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 21, 2006 at 9:50 AM
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People who take the Oneness principle literally are not sane.
I'm not going to devour Gome and say to myself that he is me and not a separate person, thereby depriving Gome of his right to be himself and pursue his own interests. That's not participating in life ---- that's destroying it.
Therefore, this group who say that Jesus IS God and therefore his treatmeant of others is his treatment of himself is a bunch of folks who ignore the cries of those who are injured by their behavior. They tell themselves, "God can do anything because he made it all by himself," and next thing you know, an innocent mother is an unpaid surrogate with a ruined marriage.
posted by
Jenasis
on November 21, 2006 at 8:08 AM
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TVBlogger -where it fell apart for me was when I realized that the supposed
ultimate sacrifice paid by Jesus was a traditional pagan blood sacrifice.
Different cultures continued to sacrifice humans to their gods for many years after the crucifixion. (the Mayans are an example in this hemisphere) . . not to mention that the idea itself of an omnipotent being lending us the means to pay him back for our transgressions is a little ridiculous. Then we must consider the timing and the success of the effort, both dismal failures. Then as you suggest, if we begin to take a broader perspective by looking beyond our planet; the entire notion of the earth being the center of the universe and having God live amongst us is absurd. It becomes painfully obvious that the entire construct is derived from the primitive observations of ancient man and nothing more.
posted by
gomedome
on November 21, 2006 at 7:41 AM
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And what about...
the fact he's God and he can do anything he wants. So in all his vast love for his people he has decided we must all suffer for eternity unless he himself, in the form of a man, dies in a cruel and painful manner. Who is he trying to impress? He's God. He set up the rules. He can do this in any manner he chooses. And what about the beings on all the other planets... and I have almost no doubt they're out there with all the billions of galaxies filled with billions of planets. Did he have to die on each and every planet to save all inhabitants? Or according to Christian beliefs are they all damned to hell because they weren't lucky enough to be born on Earth where God died? Or maybe he has a different set of rules on other planets.
When you get down to the basics, it all falls apart, imho.
posted by
TVBlogger
on November 21, 2006 at 7:20 AM
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