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Gome
Thanks for your well-written response, and I agree entirely. We are on the same wavelength. I only hope, and have good reason to believe, that there are some, even many, Christians who are working very hard to CHANGE their basic human nature, as constantly encouraged by writings in The New Testament.
Keep up the good work. I enjoy your writings.
Gerald
posted by
GEPRUITT
on November 23, 2006 at 10:54 PM
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GEPRUITT - you make some valid points and I have to agree that nothing is
gained by replacing one extreme with another.
But I am not for a minute suggesting that. Human nature will never let that happen, at least in terms of becoming a completely Godless society. Religious belief has, is and will always be an influencing factor in our everyday lives. Where the promotion of tolerance is the path to insuring that all members of society are accorded their inherent human rights, religious belief by its very nature is intolerant. The strength and resilience of our societies and especially the ability to protect the rights of the individual into the future, will be their secular nature. What I am suggesting is that we do not allow the pendulum to swing back towards more religious influence in public domain as so many are want to do.
posted by
gomedome
on November 23, 2006 at 10:14 PM
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Gome
Any society based on EXTREMES of behavior, whether it be religious belief or race superiority, or whatever, is not a "healthy" society. Whatever our own religious beliefs may happen to be, we must learn to strive toward serving all our citizens equally and fairly, with a wide tolerance for those whose beliefs differ from our own. Therefore, I must disagree with you on this one.
Total "Godlessness," I dare to suggest, would prove to be no more desirable than "total religious self-righteousness" as a model in running a representative form of government. One EXTREME is not likely to be much, if any, better than another EXTREME.
Like a finely-crafted clock-work, the pendulum must be allowed to swing both ways and be in resonance. This takes time, effort, patience, and skill on the part of the builder. Although we still have with us in the Western World many religious screwballs, (and, likely, will continue to have for some time to come), I believe that we, as a group, are improving - certainly far ahead of those in previous times who would burn witches at the stake for heresy or send adversaries off to exile for doubting that the Earth was the Center of the Universe, or that the Earth is flat, or stoning a woman for ... or etc., and on and on.
Godlessness is not the answer. BALANCE is the answer. Though this may still be centuries, even millennia, away I believe we will eventually get there on OUR PRESENT COURSE! Once there, it will be worth the wait, because we will STAY there!
Gerald
posted by
GEPRUITT
on November 23, 2006 at 9:43 PM
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However, if it actually means that there are no animals being made unhappy, then so be it.
posted by
Jenasis
on November 23, 2006 at 7:06 AM
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I'd say, Godless is when you don't have it in your life to to look up to anyone .
posted by
Jenasis
on November 23, 2006 at 7:01 AM
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strat - it really is amazing when you think about it that the underlying
premise is not second nature for kids by the time they reach college age.
There is also the notion that those who's families have been in North America longer somehow have more rights pertaining to religion. It really is difficult for some people to grasp that the family of Muslim Turks, as an example; that immigrated to this continent after the first world war, have equal rights to the family that can trace their lineage back to the Mayflower.
posted by
gomedome
on November 22, 2006 at 5:05 PM
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the same people will also tell you
that the Jewish god or the Muslim god is not really god when they are the same god.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 22, 2006 at 1:35 PM
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I'm not a lawyer either, but I've been told that the 1st Amendment is the
only dual-benefit statute in The Bill of Rights: it goes ways, it protects both the state and the church from messing with each other. The problem is when the fundamentalists and extremists with narrow views take it to an extreme in believing that their faith is the only truth, ergo, anyone of any "righteous" belief, would know that, and that other faiths do not need to be accorded the same respect.
It's not persecuting the Christians, as I've said many times I am one, to not pray over the schools PA systems. Anyone can and should feel free to pray privately at any time. If we want to back that up doctrinally and scripturally, I can do that, too: "Whomever prays to be seen of men, that will be his only reward, go in your room, shut the door and pray privately. Our father who sees all things knows". (that's a rough equivalent, but close enough).
But the beauty of our legal system is that when it's properly applied, it means that the same law applies to everyone: Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, no religion should be allowed to persecute others, and it looks like the Fundamentalist Christians (I'd like to argue that they are the main culprits, not the moderates like myself), all the while howling about being persecuted cause they can't put up nativity scenes in Federal buildings or schools, are doing a pretty good job of persecuting everybody who doesn't believe the way they do. I was told by Whimsystoryteller, that I was not a "real Christian" because I don't live or act according to The Word of God, or some crap like that. Last time, I checked the only prerequisite for being a Chrsitian is to believe in Jesus as the son of God, everything else is between me and God.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 22, 2006 at 12:50 PM
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Definitely time. Not a moment too soon.
One of the exercises in law school -- so I'm told, I am not a lawyer -- is how a professor of constitutional law will come in and preface his class with a, "Excuse me while I pray -- if you're uncomfortable then feel free to step outside." Then he yanks out a prayer rug, gets on his knees, and proceeds to start the loud ullulating singsong to Allah, or someone.
Of course, the students, most of whom have been raised around predominantly Christian communities and families, sit there, stunned, many of them extremely uncomfortable with the whole situation. Generally, no one leaves the room, though.
When he's done, the professor asks the class how they felt about that demonstration.
This is, of course, to point out the drivel in arguments -- especially around here from the self righteoud beloved -- that we're in a majority and if someone of a differing faith doesn't like it, they can go outside until the righteous are done.
posted by
strat
on November 22, 2006 at 12:40 PM
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