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I think a definite distinction needs to be made (and I think you did a
brilliant job in laying it out), between the "professional" poor, those who milk the system, and those who fall on hard times through no fault of their own and just need a helping hand to get out of bad circumstances.
Those are the "deserving" imho, Nautikos, not the welfare cheats, of which I agree there are far too many, but in these trying times, too many people need a hand or face falling through the safety net, a terrifying prospect for many.
posted by
blogflogger
on January 29, 2007 at 7:56 PM
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Nautikos
Boy, my head is about to pop off the top of my shoulders after tackling this read!!!!!!!!!!
To me, "victimhood" IS disgustingly fashionable in current-day America. And, I think the politicians are the culprits for re-defining the definition of "hero".
posted by
Joe_Love
on January 29, 2007 at 7:50 PM
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Corbin,
you have some excellent points there, but may I defer responding until after Part II ? I haven't really started it yet, being a victim of circumstances...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 12:42 PM
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Naut....
I have thought a bit more about this.....
The media and entertainment sections of our world cause a lot of the problems......they are the "carriers" of contamination, spreaders of victimization.
Positive people tend to do things without requiring attention for their acts. Besides, positive actions aren't newsworthy today..........a billionaire giving away a fortune without a press release or granting interviews are annoying to media folk.
Just as movie stars, entertainers, and politicians live for their power...so do reporters. Had the billionaire given away his money to an approved cause or university. The media whores would have made him their darling....Later he could even be caught with an under age girl, checked into a clinic because his cocaine addictions had turn his nose to mush and all would be forgiven....because he was now contiminated with victimhood.
Why? Because in our age.....self-indulgence and self-destruction....rather than self-sacrifice.....are the new foundations of heroic myths............
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 27, 2007 at 10:07 AM
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saul,
I think you understand my position very well, although I do not see this whole victimhood business as being just characteristic of an identifiable 'subculture', but rather having permeated all of our culture in various ways, that I hope to address more clearly in the next part...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 8:47 AM
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TAPS
Good idea, lol, though I depart from it considerably...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 8:41 AM
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Dylan
thanks for your extensive comment! I really appreciate it, even though my take on things is slightly different...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 8:40 AM
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bel
thanks for your comment, though I feel bad about being the cause of so much nausea in these parts...
As to your other point, yeah, I do a bit of that, though not as much as I would like, or ought to...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 8:38 AM
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Corbin
I'm a victim of my genes...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 27, 2007 at 8:35 AM
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Excellent post, Nautikos. Creating acceptability for victim status is
as bad as denying victimhood. No one is a "hero" because they're a victim. They're heroes for overcoming the adversity of being victimized. Allowing oneself to become a constant victim is pathetic. Strategically opting to be a professional victim is reprehensible. Yet, you are right in that we've established a subculture of victims within our society (I'm a victim, you're a victim, wouldn't you like to be a victim, too?).
posted by
saul_relative
on January 26, 2007 at 9:21 PM
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Nautikos
After reading your post, I think that at this point I should go read Corbin's post (which I apparently missed).
posted by
TAPS.
on January 26, 2007 at 10:01 AM
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Very interesting post.
I have read in textbooks that research indicates people tend to give themselves credit for good outcomes while blaming other people and factors for bad outcomes.
I actually think that larger social forces have a greater role, both in good and bad outcomes, than we may recognize. We would like to think we are firmly in control of what happens to us, when really we may only have a modest influence. One person, no matter how diligent and well-meaning, can have only limited success if the social structure does not support (or actively undermines) his efforts. If he fails, then, he is quite right to place most the blame outside himself. To do otherwise would amount to self-abuse.
On the other hand, when people succeed, they may be inclined to take most of the credit, downplaying the role of their family, community and social institutions in creating their success (roles they may acknowledge only rhetorically, while railing against, say, increased taxes if asked to make such a material contribution to match that rhetoric). It's socially expected to give lip service to others' contributions to our success, but it's equally socially acceptable to take the lion's share of the rewards for ourselves and run with it.
posted by
Dyl_Pickle
on January 26, 2007 at 8:14 AM
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Naut
I am interested in seeing where you take this. I am with Corbin by the way...you make me sick! Do you write anywhere else? If you don't you really should. You have a wonderful way of putting thought to paper and drawing your reader in.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 26, 2007 at 7:14 AM
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ROTFL......
wise arse.....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 26, 2007 at 6:48 AM
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Wiley,
you'll always be a hero in
my book, that's for sure...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 26, 2007 at 5:56 AM
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Justi,
yep, things get curioser and curioser...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 26, 2007 at 5:55 AM
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Corbin
I hope you get well soon...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 26, 2007 at 5:53 AM
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Nautikos
Oh I should have read Corbin's comment first. lol Yes Corbin my friend you are sooooooo right in that comment, and by golly I hope I can make myself a fisrt class victim so I can get a government check.
Yes, yes, yes, I want to be nurtured and cared for 'cuz I have no wife to mother me anymore. So, I'm gonna make the govenment my momma.lol
posted by
WileyJohn
on January 25, 2007 at 8:55 AM
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Nautikos
A fascinating post again, but oh I wish you'd write a Bugs Bunny story one time just to give my brain a rest.-;)
That book is interesting as you tell it and I quote you here,
"And here, I think, it makes sense to also refer to a few additional concepts McAdams employs: that of the actor, (which he associates with the ‘positive’) and those of ‘infection’ and ‘contamination’ (associated with the ‘negative’.)"
It made me think of my own life and situations naturally, first as a recovering alcoholic in the 40th year of sobriety, so that is a positive, and I am not a victim.-;)
Now my confrontation with Veteran's Affairs makes me the actor having to see the positives of what I am attempting to do.
Standing up for others who have been refused a pension because they refused to be victimized by lard ass bureaucrats who won't see the truth.
So now after reading your blog, I find myself having to project an image of victimization over work I was thrust into by the military, which is so very negative, in order to state a truth which should be obvious and result in a positive outcome.
There you got what you deserve for making me think, I've used you as a sounding board. lol
posted by
WileyJohn
on January 25, 2007 at 8:50 AM
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Nautikos
Wonderful post. I saw today where the city of San Francisco had put into law that everybody would be paid 9 sick days a year whom ever they worked for or whether they were ill. They can claim these to care for a neighbor or friend. They said some people could not afford to take off work any other way. Duh... How sick is a government that induces victimization?
posted by
Justi
on January 25, 2007 at 8:47 AM
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Naut....
I have been waiting for your post......You make me sick
You articulate things soooo well. I am at work so I can't go into any great depth here.....but the first thought that came to mind was that the status of "victimhood" was deliberately created by a segment of society.....victims need attention, caring, and usually in the end some sort of check......
The hook is then set, and the fish is reeled into the groups dependant class.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 25, 2007 at 8:28 AM
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hi, rich
posted by
Nautikos
on January 25, 2007 at 7:45 AM
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hi, naut
posted by
richinstore
on January 25, 2007 at 7:40 AM
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