Comments on SO WHAT WAS THIS COUNTRY FOUNDED ON?

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quietguy

I have no doubt that any book written by someone who was trying to prove that Washington was a Christian will have only the bits and pieces of proof that will reflect that and will ignore all facts that suggest otherwise. There are plenty of facts that point both ways, which is why the debate keeps going. In truth we do not know it to be one way or the other for sure.

One actual fact, that cannot be debated is that Washington was very much a proponent of the idea of Freedom of religion and separation of church and state. This is documented. He made it clear that the U.S. was NOT to be a Christian nation, but one that would embraced all relgious ideas.

posted by kooka_lives on January 22, 2008 at 6:23 PM | link to this | reply

try reading Sacred Fire by Peter Lillback

then tell me that Washington was not influenced by Christian ideology

posted by quietguy7 on January 22, 2008 at 3:01 PM | link to this | reply

Right you are, kooka. Alan Dershowitz, noted and distinguished law

professor at Harvard, wrote of that which you speak in Blasphemy, a book about the Declaration of Independence I reviewed not too long ago. And we are not a Christian nation, simply a nation which is predominantly made up of people who hold Christian beliefs. We are a nation with the right to freedom of religious worship. Where does that make us a Christian nation? Certainly not in our Constitution.

posted by saul_relative on January 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM | link to this | reply

RSM

SOME of the founding father's were Christians. The 'Creator' references in the Declaration of Independence is NOT a Christian reference. Sorry, but Christianity does NOT hold the monopoly on God or the idea of a higher power.

Found this for you about one of your quotes:

Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians ... not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

These words appear nowhere in the writings or recorded utterances of Patrick Henry.

I would bet I could find the same thing for Just about all your other quotes, since both Jefferson and Franklin were very much part of the driving force to keep religion out of the Constitution. I just don't have the time to waste to prove just how wrong you are.

posted by kooka_lives on January 21, 2008 at 2:52 PM | link to this | reply

Re: And yet....

And yet still, we have the clear existence of religion and God. The separation proves God's existence in itself. Thank God for the freedoms we enjoy in this nation to debate such issues. We do not have to worry about our families being kidnapped by our government, tortured and murdered because we do not accept the belief of Mohammed. Thank you Lord for our freedom of religion. Thank you Lord for giving this nation your blessing so that non-believers can voice their opinions as well without being fearful of being murdered. Thank you Lord for our founding fathers who believed in the existence of God.

posted by RedStatesMan on January 20, 2008 at 9:48 PM | link to this | reply

And yet....

they came to this continent to excape the religous persecution from other christians. Which is why there had to be a separation of church and state, to stop one sector of christianity from stuffing it down the throats of everone else.

posted by Whysper on January 20, 2008 at 9:06 PM | link to this | reply

A Weak Attempt

Let me give the God haters a little reality check about who our Founding Fathers were and with their own words.

The Declaration of Independence, signed by the delegates to the Continental Congress, on July 4, 1776, stated that, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men...."

Was the Creator they refer to a piece of paper? No, they were referring to God.

Patrick Henry, the great orator who said on the floor of the House of Burgesses in Virginia, "Give me liberty or give me death" also said,

It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

Wow, this one blows a hole completely through the middle of the God haters theory! 'Nuff said.

John Adams of Massachusetts, a lawyer and the second president, wrote in a letter to Jefferson on June 28, 1813. He said, "The general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity."

Yet another founding father speaking about Christianity.

Samuel Adams, cousin of John Adams, is called the "Father of the American Revolution." He incited the Boston Tea Party, signed the Declaration of Independence and called for the first Continental Congress. He said as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Samuel Adams also said, "First of all, I ... rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."

It just goes on and on. The proof that our founding fathers did believe in God is astounding, unless you are a non-believer or refusing belief in God.

Benjamin Franklin, considered a deist by many, said, "He who shall introduce into the public affairs the principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world." And Thomas Jefferson, also considered a deist, said, "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Jefferson is even quoted as having said, "I am a Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Yet again.

When Washington was inaugurated the first President of the United States in New York in 1789, a public prayer meeting was conducted to commit the new nation to the "blessings of the Creator." Later the same year, on October 3, 1789, President Washington issued a Thanksgiving Proclamation. The document begins,

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor ... Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be -...

I have many more but do not wish to hijack the Rev. Kooka's misguided post. Have a great day and God bless!

posted by RedStatesMan on January 20, 2008 at 8:58 PM | link to this | reply

So What.............

You are right on target. We must do all we can to prevent the Kings religion from subjugating all of us to the cross within the crown.

Robbrian

posted by Cebes on January 20, 2008 at 8:39 PM | link to this | reply

Here Here!

There, there!
Where, where!

posted by Whysper on January 20, 2008 at 9:01 AM | link to this | reply

Thanks. It's good from time to time to clear some things out, because somehow people get carried with wrong ideas and trout stays hidden

posted by AlienFemale on January 20, 2008 at 8:42 AM | link to this | reply