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Writer, you seem confused how opinion and facts work
Okay it is a fact that Bush got us into a wart with Iraq. It is opinion as to if this was a good thing or not.
What Bush did is FACT, the idea of if his actions are good or bad are all OPINION.
All of what Bush has done he has done and I have never claimed he has done anything that he has not actually done. All of that is FACTS and out there for all to see.
Now it is my OPINION that he is a horrible president and most everything he has done has been wrong. I am not saying he did anything he did not do, just that what he has done in my OPINION makes him a horrible President.
In YOUR OPINION he has done right and that he is not a horrible President.
This has nothing at all to do with propaganda or misinformation. Two people can take the same facts and make their own opinions about them, yet you cannot take misinformation and make a fact out of it.
Such as it is a fact that Bush got us into a war with Iraq. The war being good or bad is a matter of opinion. So there is a fact of an action and it is opinion as to the right or wrong of said action. However the idea that Obama blew off US soldier when he was in Iraq is not a fact and has been proven to be false, nothing more than a batch of lies. At that point you cannot take a proven lie and bend it around to become an opinion. That is what this post was about.
You seem to end up with the same kind of mentality that RedStatesMan has. You see something talking about conservatives and decide that it is all about you. Funny, I never once mentioned you in this post here, nor did I ever say 'All conservatives'. Your posts generally seem to be very one sided, presenting only one set of facts about a situation and ignoring a lot that would go against you, or you really do just state your opinion or you state a fact that in a conservative slanted manner. While I dislike such things, your actions are not what this post was about. Since you are generally NOT one of the conservatives here guilty of the spreading of propaganda, you are not one that this post was about.
You defense of RSM is rather interesting, mostly since his comment there was a attack against my character over the most trivial and insignificant of things. I have never once claimed my opinions to be facts, no more than you do. RSM on the other hand loves to spread the propaganda and is one greatly guilty of being one who does owe Obama and apology for committing slander against him. He dislikes people who can present facts that show him to be mistaken and does not share you need to be accurate and never tries to correct an error if someone catches him making one.
However I should like to see you follow your own challenge here. If you see me post anything as being fact that is not, point it out to me. if you see me claiming a clear opinion as fact, tell me. if you see me spreading any form of propaganda or misinformation, correct me on it. I hold myself to high standards based on my integrity and I do not wish to look a fool or a liar by posting false information. And so when you are unable to demonstrate that my facts are wrong, you must admit that I am right, if we are to be playing fair here.
Are you up to this?
posted by
kooka_lives
on August 19, 2008 at 8:13 PM
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Re: Writer, I am guessing you must not have read the post, just the title
Kooka asked quite an interesting question: "Do you understand the difference between OPINION and LIES, PROPAGANDA AND MISINFORMATION?"
I do, but I'm not so sure you do. Or, more to the point, I'm not sure you understand the difference between facts and opinion.
Consider what you admit is your opinion: "[President Bush] has shown himself to be a horrible president, helping to bring this country down to the point where it is close to collapse, he has been a great friend to the terrorists and he has done nothing at all to build the country up to help to ensure a better future for anyone who is not already rich."
If this is your opinion, then you following statement that "I did not try to say he did anything that he did not do" is meaningless. Either it is a fact that he is a horrible president, etc., or it is your opinion.
You see, opinion and facts are not the same at all. In the realm of facts, either something happened or it didn't, either it is or it is not. In the realm of opinion, facts are interpreted according to one's beliefs, morals, perspectives and so forth.
You have a problem in these comments. You blast conservatives for "posting lies, misinformation and propaganda" about Obama. Yet, as good reader RSM pointed out over on my blog at
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Comments.aspx/561433#c2574402, you apparently expect our readers to blindly accept your opinions as if they were facts, simply on your say-so that you are representing facts.
If you will take the time to read my posts, I take pains to cite sources for the facts about Obama on which I offer my opinions so you can judge for yourself their accuracy.
Your buddy Xenox once claimed that what I write about "global warming" was "98% quite unreliable," and I gladly took that as a challenge with which to measure the accuracy of all further postings. I am quite proud to say that I have entirely met that challenge and been nearly 100% reliable. Indeed, Xenox was unable to make that claim again.
I have a similar challenge for you, good Kooka. I invite you to hold me to the same standards concerning Obama that Xenox held me to concerning "global warming." If any fact I cite about him, from the flap over the flag on his plane to any of his utterances to his policies to the actions of his supporters, is proven inaccurate. I invite you to let me know where I have erred. Not my opinion, which is to say my interpretation of the facts, but the facts themselves upon which the opinion is based. Catch an error, and I will gladly correct it. But when you are unable to demonstate that my facts are wrong, you must admit that I am right.
Are you up to this?
posted by
WriterofLight
on August 13, 2008 at 9:28 PM
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Writer, I am guessing you must not have read the post, just the title
At no point in the post do I say that anyone should apologize for their OPINIONS. What they should apologize for is spreading lies, misinformation and propaganda as if it were fact. What all you stated was either opinion or YOUR take on the facts. None of what you used as an example was misinformation or propaganda or lies.
And since I have never posted any misinformation, propaganda or lies about Bush, I have nothing to apologize for. He has shown himself to be a horrible president, helping to bring this country down to the point where it is close to collapse, he has been a great friend to the terrorists and he has done nothing at all to build the country up to help to ensure a better future for anyone who is not already rich. And all of that can be considered my OPINION. In that I did not try to say he did anything that he did not do, nor did I try to pass on any form of misinformation, propaganda or lies.
Do you understand the difference between OPINION and LIES, PROPAGANDA AND MISINFORMATION?
I'll have to break down you issue with Obama here soon and show you just how wrong you are in all of that. Basically you have shown that you are not looking at his ideas, but at the fact that he is a Democrat more than anything.
posted by
kooka_lives
on August 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM
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Let me add a couple of twists to this line of thought
The conservatives do not have a candidate in this race. To call McCain a conservative is a mistake.
As for conservatives owing Obama an apology, done - On the public record, I hereby apologize to Senator Barack Obama (D-Illinois) for ridiculing his ears (see http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/WriterofLight1342/426928) and his smoking habit (see http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/WriterofLight1342/436258). That was childish and uncalled for.
But I will not apologize to Obama for calling him on his hypocrisy, his messianic attitude and utterances, his arrogance, his agenda for massive taxation and forcible redistribution of wealth, his support of partial birth abortion, his inaction concerning the nation's energy needs, or his overall pervasive lack of common sense and discretion - not until you liberals apologize to George W. Bush for your attacks on him.
Deal?
I'm waiting . . .
posted by
WriterofLight
on August 3, 2008 at 9:18 PM
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stonedead
I agree that it is not all conservatives that I am talking about here. The problem often is the more rational conservatives are not the ones speaking loud enough to be heard or noticed. So you get the childish wind-bags who spread these lies and propaganda being the ones who everyone notices and due to human nature, they became the model others see conservatives as following.
So I should say that all 'Conservatives who have been spreading the childish propaganda and lies owe Obama and apology'. That is a bit long for a post title though
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 30, 2008 at 7:58 AM
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well
As someone who has
not been involved in the discussion about which you speak, nevertheless I am sure there are some conservatives who have indeed been saying "childish" things about Obama, and while it must also be true that that many other conservatives have been respectful. So I don't think it is fair to ask "the conservatives" for an apology, since they do not speak and act as a monolith.
(Note, also, that "conservative" is not to be equated with "pro-Republican candidate" or "anti-Democratic candidate". Some eminent conservatives have recently argued that the Republican party has not been representing conservative values.)
posted by
stonedead
on July 29, 2008 at 8:01 PM
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