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Re: On prinicple, I object to brainwashing anyone.
Well, Ciel, that's why I wrote that I wished I had the thought process way back when to do just that. To have to take and recite that pledge day after day after day just seems so ridiculous . . . at least to me! 
posted by
JimmyA
on May 14, 2012 at 6:17 AM
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On prinicple, I object to brainwashing anyone.
I believe in education, and for children, appropriate (understandable) education at the appropriate age. I sometimes stood up, when I got old enough to think about the pointlessness of rote recitation of anything, and kept silence. It was enough I knew where my loyalty lay, and my patriotism.
posted by
Ciel
on May 11, 2012 at 5:05 PM
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Re: Food For Thought: Two Items
That's true, Against. Quite often you'll hear a judge tell a witness who had already been on the stand that they're "still under oath," instead of making them take "the pledge" each and every time. Food for thought is always nourishing! 
posted by
JimmyA
on May 11, 2012 at 10:57 AM
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Food For Thought: Two Items
First, you make a good point. Making a daily ritual out of the flag pledge may indeed tend to reduce it to a form a brainwashing. What would be better is what we do, not what we say in a ritual. Fore example, children could participate perhaps in mock elections.
Second--and this is slightly contrary to what you state in your blog: During the course of a trial, if a particular witness is called to the stand more than once, he or she swears to tell the truth each time of stepping up front. It's probably not an exact analogy, but just some food for thought.
posted by
Against4WindsOn2Flam
on May 11, 2012 at 8:58 AM
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Re:
I guess that's still a part of the debate, Sam, whether once a week or every day was sufficient. Perhaps today people need a little more patriotism in their lives! 
posted by
JimmyA
on May 11, 2012 at 5:06 AM
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Re:
I probably didn't mind it so much as a child either, Bright, but lookng back on it now, it did seem a little excessive. I still say one lively recital on Monday mornings could have sufficed for the whole week. As for those other things the adults did to us to "mess with our minds," well, all I can say is . . . don't get me started!
posted by
JimmyA
on May 11, 2012 at 5:03 AM
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I suppose once per week would be enough although it has never bothered me to recite it daily while in school! sam 
posted by
sam444
on May 10, 2012 at 6:51 PM
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I do understand your thought on this matter but I never did mind that ittle part of each day but there were thoughts and lessons on religion and good behavior and punishment that messed with my mind.
posted by
BrightIrish
on May 10, 2012 at 6:01 PM
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Re:
Actually, C C T, I believe when I was very young and still learning all the words, I had no choice but to mime because I really didn't know what I was actually saying. As I got older and both remembered and understood the words and their meaning, I would still recite along with my classmates and feel that same sense of patriotism as I would have if we had only recited it one day a week instead of every day of the week! That was, and is, my only issue!
posted by
JimmyA
on May 10, 2012 at 7:46 AM
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Re:
I had a feeling, TAPS, that at least one person might feel as you do. Yes, I'm proud of my country and yes, I'm as patriotic as the next American. My only issue was the redundancy. I still do not see or feel the need to recite that pledge each and every morning.
posted by
JimmyA
on May 10, 2012 at 7:42 AM
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Re: JimmyA
Thanks, Wiley. I'm sure each country around the world has its own way of showing patriotism with various rituals and such. Strict allegiance is one thing, but perhaps the school systems here were a little too strict in demanding this "allegiance" each and every day. That's my only point.
posted by
JimmyA
on May 10, 2012 at 7:39 AM
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Re: Re: Re: interesting thoughts. I of course didn't go to an American scho
Well, if she "spat venom," I can hardly wonder why!
posted by
JimmyA
on May 10, 2012 at 7:37 AM
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I was trying to think what we did as we assembled each morning, I guess it must have been a few prayers , nothing ritual. Anyway it did not make much impression on anyone as far as I know. Pity you should have mimed your pledge at times as a show of defiance. 
posted by
C_C_T
on May 9, 2012 at 11:38 PM
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Pledging allegience to "The Grand Old Flag" every day at school made me feel proud of being a part of a wonderful country that stood for, and fought for freedom and God and family. I don't remember ever feeling bored about it. It was a great beginning of every school day.
posted by
TAPS.
on May 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM
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JimmyA
Good post and you have terrific intestinal fortitude my friend. All I can say is I'm content we didn't have to do that in Canada especially because we were flying the Union Jack. We flew the Canadian Red Ensign which was the Jack with a Canuck emblem on it until 1965. I don't believe Royalty approved actually.It probably had to do with the fact of the French side of our heritage as well. After all is said and done however, America became the world's lifeboat so maybe that strict allegiance to the flag served a higher purpose and that's why it's planted on the moon.
posted by
WileyJohn
on May 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM
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Re: Re: interesting thoughts. I of course didn't go to an American school so
oh she was what today they call a bully and no we never knew how to deal with her. I never saw her again once we grew up, never tried to either!!!!LOL.
posted by
Kabu
on May 9, 2012 at 3:23 PM
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Re:
That's true too, Luster. That's why I had suggested the "once a week" routine. But I'm afraid that the kids are apparently stuck with this daily routine! 
posted by
JimmyA
on May 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM
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Re:
Thanks, FSI. I was actually somewhat fearful that some people might misinterpret my message as being a little unpatriotic, which was not the case at all! Yes, it really was overdone! 
posted by
JimmyA
on May 9, 2012 at 1:10 PM
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Re: interesting thoughts. I of course didn't go to an American school so
Well, Kabu, I don't know about the "disciplined" part, but it does seem as though you had a little daily ritual of your own . . . each and every day! And just what were they feeding you kids that allowed venom to be created and spat from various classmates? I'd hate to cross that kid!
posted by
JimmyA
on May 9, 2012 at 1:08 PM
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it doesnt have the same meaning over and over again
posted by
Lanetay
on May 9, 2012 at 10:30 AM
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Looking back at it, I do feel that it was overdone.
posted by
FormerStudentIntern
on May 9, 2012 at 9:46 AM
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interesting thoughts. I of course didn't go to an American school so
I can't really comment. Although from grades 1-7 ...Primary school in Australia, we did raise the flag each day and have a little assembly in the court yard. I remember more about pushing and shoving, a bitchy little girl who spat venom from the side of her mouth(her Daddy worked for my Daddy) and giggling at the wrong moment. Not very disciplined memories
posted by
Kabu
on May 9, 2012 at 9:30 AM
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